Managing breeds?

[rjl]

I’m about to start my flock with purchased chicks (Easter Eggers, Barred Plymouth Rock, White Plymouth Rock, and Rhode Island Reds). There’s a 90% sex guarantee but we could end up with a male. If we keep a rooster and let the girls go broody as desired, do we need to stay on top of genetics or anything if we’re not selling hatching eggs or chicks?

 

[DemeterAD9]

I don’t see anything to worry about. The first few generations will be fine as mutts seem to be more resilient anyways. Maybe later down the road you’ll want to swap out your main roo for some new blood. Genetic diversity is what keeps the flock going. That being said you’ll probably want to think about genetic in terms of what you want out of your birds. Laying is important but what about body size and meatiness? Feather and egg color? Comb size depending on if you live in a cold climate?

 

[Ridgerunner]

A lot depends on your goals. Even if you are not selling hatching eggs or chicks, what do you want your flock to look like and what traits do you want them to have? That's more than feather color or pattern. That could be size, egg production, egg color, comb type, whether or not they go broody, and many other things. That could affect which hens or roosters you allow to breed and which eggs you hatch or which you decide to keep in your flock and which you get rid of.

I suggest you be ruthless if you see defects in the chicks you hatch or even the parent flock. Crossbeak and crooked toes immediately come to mind but there can be many other traits you do not want in your flock. I eliminate birds that have traits I don't want. I do not breed hens that go barebacked as that can be an inherited trait. I had a pullet that laid from the roost for a month when she first started laying. I don't mind if they do that for a week or so as it can take a while for them to get that straightened out, but a month was too long. There was something wrong with her.

Most people can go 4 or 5 generations before genetic diversity gets so bad that you need to bring in a new rooster to reset it. If recessive traits show up with most of them you might need to act sooner or even start over, but the long term problems of losing genetic diversity is the fertility of your flock can drop, production (egg laying) can drop, or they may become susceptible to certain diseases. So be selective in which ones you allow to breed. Breed your best and eat or get rid of the rest.

 

[rjl]

My main concerns are egg laying and foraging ability. But I won’t know about how well they forage for a while anyway. I guess I’m trying to find the best balance between low maintenance and sustainable. I’m in the season of having young kids so I need it to be relatively simple.
How can I be selective in which hens breed if I’m keeping the flock together?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Can you tell which hen laid which egg by color, size, or shape? Probably not with most of your breeds. That's the only practical way I know if they are all together.

 

[rjl]

A lot depends on your goals. Even if you are not selling hatching eggs or chicks, what do you want your flock to look like and what traits do you want them to have? That's more than feather color or pattern. That could be size, egg production, egg color, comb type, whether or not they go broody, and many other things. That could affect which hens or roosters you allow to breed and which eggs you hatch or which you decide to keep in your flock and which you get rid of.

I suggest you be ruthless if you see defects in the chicks you hatch or even the parent flock. Crossbeak and crooked toes immediately come to mind but there can be many other traits you do not want in your flock. I eliminate birds that have traits I don't want. I do not breed hens that go barebacked as that can be an inherited trait. I had a pullet that laid from the roost for a month when she first started laying. I don't mind if they do that for a week or so as it can take a while for them to get that straightened out, but a month was too long. There was something wrong with her.

Most people can go 4 or 5 generations before genetic diversity gets so bad that you need to bring in a new rooster to reset it. If recessive traits show up with most of them you might need to act sooner or even start over, but the long term problems of losing genetic diversity is the fertility of your flock can drop, production (egg laying) can drop, or they may become susceptible to certain diseases. So be selective in which ones you allow to breed. Breed your best and eat or get rid of the rest.

Can you tell which hen laid which egg by color, size, or shape? Probably not with most of your breeds. That's the only practical way I know if they are all together.

Can you tell which hen laid which egg by color, size, or shape? Probably not with most of your breeds. That's the only practical way I know if they are all together.

I don’t even have the chicks yet so I have no clue. Obviously I’ll be able to tell the Easter Eggers but all the others lay brown. The sizes might vary though.
If chicks are hatched that do have recessive qualities, do you cull them as chicks then? Or can you allow them to grow so they can at least be eaten?
Also, if I only allow a broody hen to keep a single egg, I shouldn’t run into problems too quickly, right?

 

[Ridgerunner]

If chicks are hatched that do have recessive qualities, do you cull them as chicks then? Or can you allow them to grow so they can at least be eaten?

I was not clear. All chickens are going to have recessive genes. What I should have said was harmful or defective recessive genes. The goal is to not let them breed. You can certainly grow them out and eat them. I do.

Also, if I only allow a broody hen to keep a single egg, I shouldn’t run into problems too quickly, right?

I don't understand this. I'm not sure what you are asking or what kind of problems you are talking about. I may have said something else wrong.

I personally like giving a hen several eggs to hatch, usually a dozen. Part of that is that it suits my goals for hatching chicks, which include eating them. The more chicks you have the easier it is to select the best to keep. When I bring in a new rooster for genetic diversity I may buy 20 cockerels. After putting the obvious rejects in the freezer I am usually down to two or three that are the best. A single chick will do OK with a broody hen, but at some point she will wean that chick. Once on its own it is hard for a single chick to make its way with the flock. They do much better if there are at least a few. I try hard to never have a single chick.

The bottom line is that you probably will not have many, if any, obvious defects. If you see any, do not allow that chicken to breed. Your problem is more likely that you will have trouble deciding which ones to get rid of. They will probably all or most look pretty good to you.

 

[rjl]

I was not clear. All chickens are going to have recessive genes. What I should have said was harmful or defective recessive genes. The goal is to not let them breed. You can certainly grow them out and eat them. I do.


I don't understand this. I'm not sure what you are asking or what kind of problems you are talking about. I may have said something else wrong.

I personally like giving a hen several eggs to hatch, usually a dozen. Part of that is that it suits my goals for hatching chicks, which include eating them. The more chicks you have the easier it is to select the best to keep. When I bring in a new rooster for genetic diversity I may buy 20 cockerels. After putting the obvious rejects in the freezer I am usually down to two or three that are the best. A single chick will do OK with a broody hen, but at some point she will wean that chick. Once on its own it is hard for a single chick to make its way with the flock. They do much better if there are at least a few. I try hard to never have a single chick.

The bottom line is that you probably will not have many, if any, obvious defects. If you see any, do not allow that chicken to breed. Your problem is more likely that you will have trouble deciding which ones to get rid of. They will probably all or most look pretty good to you.

Sorry, one of the problems I meant is that I won’t have several generations very quickly if I minimize the number of eggs that a hen is allowed to hatch. I live in town so I don’t have space for an extra dozen chicks on top of the 15 that I ordered. So my idea of a sustainable flock is a very slow replacement, if that makes sense.
I appreciate the advice about allowing a couple of eggs, I hadn’t considered a single chick trying to survive in an existing flock. Thank you for all your help!

 

[Mrs. K]

How small are your children? Unfortunately cockerels and roosters are not like puppies and cats. They can often become violent and tend to attack children first. A small child can take the attack to the head or face. Roosters have ruined the whole chicken experience for a lot of people.

You have years to do this hobby, I would suggest starting with an all hen flock. Get some experience, test out your coop/run. Next year add a rooster, roosters are easy to get and cheap. Then start playing with hatching.

You should not hatch pullet eggs, they are smaller in the beginning, and not big enough to produce a viable chick. If you buy chicks now, you are 5-6 months away from laying, add 3 months to that to get eggs big enough to hatch, and you are way down in the winter if you are in the northern hemisphere. Not need for a rooster till next spring.

Mrs K

 

[fluffycrow]

Since you mentioned foraging ability as one of your main goals, I’m assuming that you’re looking to free range your birds.

Roosters in free range groups are not an absolute must, but I have found them to be extremely helpful. All-female free range groups can be successful, but it’s tricky. I’ve only every had one free range group be all females, and while it did have more losses, it was successful.

Key part of said success I contribute to the age differences within the group; the head hen(s) were much older, the middle ranking females were young hens, and the low ranking ones were just pullets. In this semi-generational system, the matriarchs of the group were mature enough to assume most of the rooster’s duties, something that I’ve yet to see happening with immature pullets.

Depending on the predator load in your area, both the need for a rooster and the rate at which you can let your hens hatch out chicks increases or decreases. If your property gets visited by predators quite frequently, then you can assume that some of your birds will get predated.

Over the generations, with natural brooding and predation, your chickens will reach a point of being good foragers, and survivors. Letting one hen every breeding season hatch out a generous clutch sounds about right. From each generation, both you and the environment will choose which birds will pass on their genes.

Letting a hen sit on a single egg is seldom successful, since the fertility, viability, and successful hatching are not guaranteed. On top of that, the chick will need to survive in a free range setting, especially when mum decides to leave, which is a very dangerous period for free ranging juveniles