Marans - SOP discussion thread

[marquisella]

Quote:
Once you see POSITIVE WHITE ENAMEL you can't miss it.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rosecomb+bantams&qpvt=rosecomb+bantams&FORM=IGRE

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Brown+leghorn&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=brown+leghorn&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk=

I think it has a sheen almost.... like something painted pearl.....
Yeah, that is white...not what I'm looking at.

 

[DMRippy]

A blue copper with pos white enamel.

 

[marquisella]

A blue copper with pos white enamel.

Just yesterday I read in the Marans group that to remove the "whitish" color on ears use a toothbrush, and it will come off. It is what I am seeing, not this enamel white.

 

[DMRippy]

A blue copper with pos white enamel.

Just yesterday I read in the Marans group that to remove the "whitish" color on ears use a toothbrush, and it will come off. It is what I am seeing, not this enamel white.

did you try that? did it work? I would think that might get.the blood going and pink it up.

 

[marquisella]

Quote: did you try that? did it work? I would think that might get.the blood going and pink it up.
Not yet...Had NPIP test yesterday, ran around catching birds....too tired to try anything...Of course, now, they see me coming & run & hide....

 

[Wynette]

Is there any chicken that is lower at the shoulders than the tail? I'm not sure, but I think that when they wrote it, it was "assumed" that the tilting would be understood to be from the shoulders to the tail...

Yes, several. For one, Plymouth Rock. The are inclined (run uphill) from base of neck to base of tail.

Oh assuming is so bad...

Yes.. We get the whole tilting from SHOULDER to TAIL... What we are left assuming is whether the tilt is downward or upward. The next statement does not state that we are at the tail looking backwards, instead it flows as if it is clarifying how much of a tilt you are viewing from the shoulder to the tail. "slightly more inclined than the female"

There are breeds like the Delaware where the back is concave in shape... tilting down and then back up.

We have always complained that the SOP is written for those who already know what they are doing. This is another example of where a word or two would leave no doubt. The first thing that gets shoved down a person's throat is the need to own an SOP and yet there is a gap between what is written and what a "newbie" can understand. Hence the need for threads like this one.

There have been several times where we have had to contact Walt for clarification of the written word.

Just a thought... Take it or leave it...

Here's the thing - the SOP has already been written & accepted by the APA. It is not "proposed" (except for the varieties not yet accepted, but the general SOP for Marans is already etched in stone & approved). As far as your comment: "The first thing that gets shoved down a person's throat is the need to own an SOP and yet there is a gap between what is written and what a "newbie" can understand." I'm not really sure what your complaint is aimed to correct or change...again, the Marans SOP is written in language that is customary & ordinary & used in most all SOPs. If a person would like help in interpreting something, ask on a breed thread for clarification, or as you have done - PM or e-mail Walt, Bill, or another judge. If YOU have a question about something, then others do, too. This is part of the reason why we have the sketches - they go HAND IN HAND with the SOP and were done at the same time as an illustration of what the SOP calls out. Of course, that does no good for things like white enamalin in the lobes, but as far as the type/conformation of the bird, compare the sketches to the drawings. The drawings are merely meant as an aide to use for those of us (me included!) who are very visual learners.

 

[Wynette]

OK realized I had forgotten about a pullet. I had put her in the layer pen so I could see her egg color and forgot about her being there

She's coming off her molt and laid her first egg in awhile today. A solid #4. Matches the shade card exactly, even down to the dark freckles.

Red55, Too dark, I'll check her eye color again to be sure, but I think it's dark (this pic from 10/2/13) A little copper on her neck. Her comb has a wrinkle in it and she has just a very few little fuzzy feathers on her legs. But I think her topline, tail angle are ok. what do you all think?

Hmmm...well, she looks tiny - is she quite small? Her underline isn't great. It's not horrible, but not quite the nice round bowl shaped underline that we prefer. Her back could be longer, and the angle isn't there (slightly inclined from base of tail to base of neck). Tail is pinched. Shank feathering not good. Yeah, I dunno...I would not use her. (my opinion only - I am not an expert).

 

[math ace]

As far as your comment: "The first thing that gets shoved down a person's throat is the need to own an SOP and yet there is a gap between what is written and what a "newbie" can understand." I'm not really sure what your complaint is aimed to correct or change...again, the Marans SOP is written in language that is customary & ordinary & used in most all SOPs.

If a person would like help in interpreting something, ask on a breed thread for clarification, or as you have done - PM or e-mail Walt, Bill, or another judge. If YOU have a question about something, then others do, too. This is part of the reason why we have the sketches - they go HAND IN HAND with the SOP and were done at the same time as an illustration of what the SOP calls out. Of course, that does no good for things like white enamalin in the lobes, but as far as the type/conformation of the bird, compare the sketches to the drawings. The drawings are merely meant as an aide to use for those of us (me included!) who are very visual learners.

Wynette,

My Complaint was clear and simple. In fact, my "complaint" has been stated my many others numerous times over the years that I have been posting on BYC.
The SOP is written in customary and ordinary language for a "breeder". For those new to chickens, the SOP is difficult to understand. I do believe my previous post did state that there was a need for BYC to help explain / teach the SOP to newbies.

I know the SOP has been finalized. However, before the next edition goes to print, I don't see how adding a word or two to the SOP, strictly to match the picture, strictly to clarify what we already have established (ie...slightly DOWNWARD tilt) hurts anything. I did not get the impression from my other threads that it would be to difficult to "clarify" the standard as opposed to changing it.

OBTW, my "complaint" was really more an observation than an actual complaint. I am reporting what I have repeatedly heard others saying (complaining). The tone of your response indicates that I probably should not of bothered.... I was not looking for an argument.

 

[Wynette]

I wasn't arguing - but when you use language like "shoved down their throat" that does make it seem a bit negative and, as such, a "complaint"...I don't understand what all this negativity is all about. We're ALL here to learn & move the breed forward. This is the SOP discussion thread - and I do understand what you're saying, but to my knowledge, an SOP cannot be changed once it is approved. It would not be up to us, that would be a question to pose to the APA, I think.

I'm sorry if I have offended you, clearly you are upset by my post, and my intention was only to help clarify. I don't have all the answers, none of us do - that's why we discuss things as a group.

 

[math ace]

I am so "done" being upset over things on this thread. The negativity seems to ooze from almost every post on here lately.
"Shove down their throats" is an accurate description of how others market the SOP to newbies. There have been many posts where folks have said the first thing a BYC person needs to do is own a SOP. Other posts have said that no one can be taken seriously unless they have a SOP.

Now don't get me wrong... I BELIEVE in the SOP and the NEED for one. I do believe the book does an excellent job with the photos in the first section of the book. I do believe it is well worth the cost...

That being said, the SOP is written in the customary and ordinary language of a breeder... Lots of new blood is coming scene and those folks don't live next door to an experienced breeder that can act as a mentor. The SOP should be written as clearly as possible, leaving no room for confusion. . .