Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

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Hi

Congratulations!!!

I am not sure we should cull roosters that are protecting their flocks at mating time. I know it's not a nice thing to happen but there must be a reason why they do it. I have noticed that when I only had one rooster he was fine but as I increased the number of roosters the aggression also increased. Any other thoughts on this?

Bev

Hmm, compounding the testosterone level and the percieved competion for the prize, maybe??

 

[Debbi]

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BINGO! I think you said it all right there geebs! Sounds like a sound plan to me!

 

[math ace]

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The pictures seem too dark to give good feed back on color or mossiness.
ALSO, the girls seem to be standing at some unnatural poses. It is throwing the stance off and makes it difficult to tell if there are body issues.

I am a NOVICE at this, so the more experience ones in this thread maybe able to tell you more. If they can not - - maybe you could get us some better pictures in the better light. Also, how old are these girls ?
- Thanks

 

[Debbi]

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I don't post alot on this thread since most times I don't want to get in trouble on BYC and get reported by the Marans group so I just shut up. However this is an ongoing issue with Marans on the lines. Once you get them and breed them they are no longer... Wade Jean etc etc. People claim the lines and have no clue what they have when they mix and match lines and claim Jean, Davis, Presley and they aren't. they are mixed lines, and who knows what they are unless you got them from the person you named. Alot of people claim C1 wade jean but they have to come from 2 people and even then both have said they can't be sure. it's really to bad for the breed, I'm glad to have the Fitch line of Cuckoo Marans and the Cottage Hill line of BCM's. The Cottage hill are easy to trace and our Fitch are person to person thru 3 times from Bill Fitch.


Steve

Hi Steve, I saw you had some listed on Ebay. Why is it you don't post any pics of the parent birds, just the eggs? I for one, would like to see what you have!

 

[Debbi]

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I may be starting a can of worms - - - so all the regulars on BYC can feel free to correct me, BUT be GENTLE, I mean no HARM or OFFENSE. . .

In the US, there have been 4 well know breeders who started the Marans ball rolling - - Bev Davis, Ron Presley, R Valentine, and Wade Jean. I have listed the names alphbetically by FIRST NAME, not by preference - - - OK.

Now each line has good points and bad points (called faults). There is not a PERFECT line out there . . . . To me there is more value given to a line that has been kept pure - - like pure Jean or pure Presley. So, the first thing I would find out is if Bargin's stock is PURE Wade Jean.

Now you will have to ask around on Wade's lines - - - There is a C1 line and a C2 line. I don't know the difference, but those on here that are Jean fans will know. Some of Jean's lines DO NOT MIX well - - so knowing which line they are from is important.


Currently, I could purchase pure Presley marans for $6 a chick - straight run and min of 10.
A 7 months ago, I paid $10 for my month old PURE Bev Davis roo.
A year ago, I paid $7 for my week old Davis / Presley mix pullets - - not a straight run.

I too live in an area where no one has them, but everyone wants them. At our local swaps, there is one lady who comes up from central Florida and sells Jean marans. She brings egg shells with her to the swaps and has pictures of the parents. Clearly, her intent is not to rip people off.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have tried to get rich selling marans. They have not done careful breeding and have even mixed other breeds in with their marans stock. They don't practice selective breeding. They let a handful of roosters run loose with a pile of hens and they don't know who breed who OR if it was a complementry coupling.

So my bottom line is until you know you have some really good looking birds who are laying some really dark eggs - - - be very fair in the pricing. You don't want to burn your customers. You want them to pass good words about you and keep coming back for more. The young chicks that are pure breed - - - you could do for $5 or $6 each - - straight run and the eggs were DARK. Lower price if the eggs were only a 4 or 5 in color darkness !

The older chicks (older than a month) add $2 per month for cost of feed.

By the time they reach 4 months, you should be able to start culling the ones that you don't want. REMEMBER, these are your rejects - - so you should reach a price that a common breed POL hen in your area would be going for . . . .because these should be consider LAYING hens NOT breeding hens. You need to make sure you don't lead people on about what they are getting.

I sold my culled BCM marans roo at our swap a few months ago. He was 4 months old and I sold him for $10. I sold him at a loss because he was not good quality - - faults were apparent. A 4 month old pur breed good quality roo would go for more. THIS WAS MY REJECT - - I sold him to a lady who just wanted a barnyard roo. She was delighted that he was a marans and had no intention of showing or breeding him for show bird

GOOD LUCK - - AND VERY SORRY MY RESPONSE WAS SO LONG.

Math Ace,

That SHOULD be the ideal for every honest chicken person, no matter what breed you are talking about. But, in the real world, unfortuneatly, there are people in it for the "rare" factor, hence the "money" factor. People who don't do any or at least a little research are going to get burned by these folks! Even then, after research, there are no guarantees! Ideal is not the norm any more, sadly to say. Buyers, do YOUR HOMEWORK, check out your sources BEFORE you lay down your hard earned cash! From now on, if I want a certain and particular bloodline, if possible, I will go to the ORIGINAL breeder...period. Too many folks are out there touting this line and that line, without any proof. JMHO

 

[Debbi]

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Hi Debbie

Here is the standard that has been written so far but it hasn't been accepted by the APA or gone through the Standards Committee yet. I would have thought that the hackle feathers would be lighter in a bird with the blue gene because the blue gene is a bleaching gene and tends to make gold a lighter color.

Disqualifications
White in ear-lobes. Two or more white feathers in plumage.

Color of Male

Comb, Face, Wattles and Ear-Lobes: Bright red.
Beak: Dark Horn.
Eyes: Reddish bay.
Shanks and Toes: Slate, bottom of feet, pinkish white.
Head: Lustrous deep coppery orange.
Neck: Hackle—Lustrous deep coppery orange with narrow blue stripe through the middle of each feather terminating in a point near its lower extremity.
Front of neck—Blue with narrow lacing of deep orange.
Back: Back—Lustrous deep coppery orange.
Saddle—same as hackle.
Tail: Main Tail—Blue with slight luster
Sickles and Coverts—Lustrous blue.
Wings: Shoulders and Fronts—blue.
Bows—Lustrous deep coppery orange to match back.
Coverts—Lustrous blue.
Primaries—Blue.
Secondaries—Blue, with exposed portion forming wing bay, with slight luster.
Breast: Upper breast, blue with narrow lacing of deep coppery orange.
Lower breast—blue.
Body and Stern: Blue.
Legs: Lower Thighs—Blue
Shanks and Toes—Blue.

Thanks Bev, that was what I was trying to say. To compare the blue copper to the BCM should, in my opinion, allow for a lighter or "flame" hackle color, due to the lesser/faded gene. Maybe more work on the Blue and Blue Copper SOP needs some looking into??

 

[Debbi]

To my above post let me add, that let's get the BCMs and Wheatens approved first! Seeing as NO country had accepted the Blues, that should give us (club and APA) plenty of time to adjust and finalize a Blue SOP! I appreciate all that you in charge are going through to accomplish this end result!

 

[math ace]

Goodnight my friends on the west coast - - - I know Friday night party time is just starting for you, BUT I have to drag my old body to bed. My day starts early 5:30 am EASTERN time.

Keep the light on Debbi - - I think everyone else on the EAST Coast has gone night night !

 

[Debbi]

'Night Math Ace! Seems everyone has gone to sleep here! LOL! Guess they may all have a Friday night life...

 

[cpartist]

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But you're teaching a class here

!

Your previous post on breeding and crossing was so informative...
pretty much what I'm in the process of setting up, and you should
have seen the look on DH when I told him that I need 2 pens for
each breed so that I can breed the daughters to fathers and sons to
mothers...he thought he was done with 6

.

Agree...conformation is first and foremost...build the barn etc.
It is difficult to understand proper shape when there is not a visual to
refer to in the SOP as there is with most other breeds...we have to
imagine this using the wording of the shape standard.

Just saying big, or beefy, sometimes is not helpful, as some birds take
longer to fill out, and may not reach full potential until they are a year old.
To avoid feeding a lot of birds to this age, I've found instead of looking at just a side
view, look at them from the top, back, and front, as well. Around 16-20 weeks, you
can get a pretty good idea regarding size potential by the width between the shoulders and
legs, and the tail formation as Don discussed previously. This is a good age, I've found,
to get your numbers down while waiting on coloring to finalize.

Also, even though breeding for type first, I believe the point Don keeps hammering here
(and I agree with) is don't even start with birds that have any DQ or genetic issues that
would take forever to breed out...even though they may be color and not conformation
issues. The mossiness, white feathers, much to red breasts etc. could keep popping up, even if they stay hidden
for a while. No hands on experience here with those particular issues, (had some of these, but did not breed) but I'm thinking
it would be easier to breed to better size, or tail set, than to eliminate the gene, or lack
of one, that causes mossiness for example.