Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[aceschix]

Someone tell me why my BCM rooster who is looking quite handsome by all that you are all discribing has YELLOW legs?

Where does that come from?

I know it is bad and I can not use him.

But I do not want to go back throught the 5 million posts to find the answer that is probably already here...call me lazy or just plain busy

 

[Lotsapaints]

I have 2 with yellow legs came from "Jeanne Line" eggs but who knows one is perfectly colored but has dark eyes they are both soon to meet the freezer and I have others with white fluff or feather or even 2......culls I have 2 that I'm letting grow out maybe they will be okay from 8 hatched and many eggs.....even my nice Golden Cuckoo male has a lopped comb I just don't have any good luck.

 

[coq au vin]

yello legs are recessive, so it takes some work to find the culprits and cull them. just like wheaten.

 

[cpartist]

Quote:
Keara, My opinion only, I like a lot of things about this boy. His comb is very proportional to his body.
His coloring is great! Tail size/shape is one of the best I've seen, and his bottom line and width is excellent for his age.
His top line, however, should have a nice slope from shoulders to tail. I'm not sure if he is truely "roach backed",
as it could be just the way he is standing, but I think this is what makes his neck look short. Your pullet looks great from the front,
and if she has a good top line, could offset this.

Regarding the middle toe feathering, I believe, as Debbi said, this is a DQ. I'm guessing this is because the feathering gene is
linked to other genetic foot issues such as fused toes and short toes. I don't have the references to this at hand, but you
can google some of these terms and find some interesting reading. IMO that is why the the standard calls for lighter feathering.

I have personal experience with all of the above

. My general rule is not to breed any bird showing a DQ, that it will likely
be something you will battle down the road...these do not always show, but can keep popping up in offspring...hidden genes.
Specifically with Marans, this would be foot/feathering issues, straw hackles, mossiness, etc. Combs, tail angle, no shank feathering,
size, coppering on females can be "fixed" by compensation breeding. This has served me well, not just in this breed but others.
Welsummers, for example, I had 2 pullets from 2 good breeders with feather stubs. By pulling those girls out of the breeding pen,
I've not seen it since.

In your case, however, this boy has such nice attributes, I'd do a test hatch. You'll know at hatch what percentage the
chicks exhibit as far as middle toe feathering, and possible fused or short toes. If more than 20% or so show problems, I wouldn't
use him again, but if not, I'd evaluate and select the best with proper shape and good color at 5-6 months.

Edited to add this reference regarding foot feathering genetics...good info toward the bottom specifically about breeding out
Brachydactyly, (short toes), but the results may be similar in breeding out middle toe feathering.
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/10E01A10.pdf

 

[cpartist]

Quote:
Hi Cook!

Let me guess that little hole seems like it just wasn't really developed at all, huh? You know how an ember or match will burn a nice hole right through polyester or something like that, does the hole sort of resemble that but looks like what melted dropped through the hole to almost land on the membrane of the egg? Did any of that make sense?

I have got eggs like that.

I posted this article once before in another thread hoping that it would be discussed and thought that it had merit. Maybe this time.
Borrowed from Wikipedia.


"The default color of vertebrate eggs is the white of the calcium carbonate from which the shells are made, but some birds, mainly passerines, produce colored eggs. The pigments biliverdin and its zinc chelate give a green or blue ground color, and protoporphyrin produces reds and browns as a ground color or as spotting.

Non-passerines typically have white eggs, except in some ground-nesting groups such as the Charadriiformes, sandgrouse and nightjars, where camouflage is necessary, and some parasitic cuckoos which have to match the passerine host's egg. Most passerines, in contrast, lay colored eggs, even if there is no need of cryptic colors.

However, a recent study suggests that the protoporphyrin markings on passerine eggs actually act to reduce brittleness by acting as a solid state lubricant. If there is insufficient calcium available in the local soil, the egg shell may be thin, especially in a circle around the broad end. Protoporphyrin speckling compensates for this, and increases inversely to the amount of calcium in the soil.

For the same reason, later eggs in a clutch are more spotted than early ones as the female's store of calcium is depleted.

The color of individual eggs is also genetically influenced, and appears to be inherited through the mother only, suggesting that the gene responsible for pigmentation is on the sex determining W chromosome (female birds are WZ, males ZZ).

It used to be thought that color was applied to the shell immediately before laying, but this research shows that coloration is an integral part of the development of the shell, with the same protein responsible for depositing calcium carbonate, or protoporphyrins when there is a lack of that mineral.

In species such as the Common Guillemot, which nest in large groups, each female's eggs have very different markings, making it easier for females to identify their own eggs on the crowded cliff ledges on which they breed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(biolog…

Life was rushing by to fast to comment at the time, but wanted to bring this up again, for any insights, specifically this sentence:

"The color of individual eggs is also genetically influenced, and appears to be inherited through the mother only, suggesting that the gene responsible for pigmentation is on the sex determining W chromosome (female birds are WZ, males ZZ)."

I've always believed/heard that the roo contributed 50% of the color gene, and to always use a roo that hatched from a dark egg. That the roo's gene was most important
because he is genetically 50% of the flock.

My pullets are just starting to lay, and I'm finding that their eggs are nearly identical to their Mama's from different lines. BCM (Dark brown, rounder, no stippling) Blue Coppers (Dark, ruby red brown w/ stippling and oval)...same Dad. Is he immaterial regarding egg color after all? If so, it would be so much easier to select a roo since it is difficult enough to pick a roo based on
conformation, let alone what egg color he hatched from.

I only kept 2 girls and 1 boy that made the "cut" though...would really like to hear of others experience with larger flocks as to the roo's egg color contribution.

BTW Hiya Pink. Been following your hatch "adventures" on other threads. I must be leading a parallel life on the east coast...I have Dellie eggs in the bator,
love da' Blues and Wellies, too!

 

[pinkchick]

Hi Everyone!
It has been a weird and very long couple of days 'round here and my house. I still have babies hatching can you believe that, the scragglers are 2 Welsummers and a Delaware that I thought for sure would have hatched last night but is still in there.

2 of Bills babies are here in the world with 1 of Gnarles babies. Here's a good one for ya'll.......I don't know if they are all splash or if they are all a VERY VERY light blue??????? They have me a little stumped, but I am leaning toward blue, BUT, oh my gosh, they are sooooooooooo light and silvery .........

Splash? or Blue? Splash? or Blue? See!?!?!?!?!

All 3 have feathered shanks......this makes me

. Yesterday both of the other eggs from Gnarles pen were still rocking and one was peeping but that has since stopped. One of the eggs from Bills pen was also still rocking and chirping yesterday but again that has stopped as well. I will leave the 'bators on for another day just to see what happens but I believe they are done.
Will post some photos very soon.

 

[pinkchick]

Oh for crying out loud I just looked in there and that other egg from Gnarles pen is still rocking!!!!!!!! This is driving me even crazier than I already was .....if it doesn't pip by late this afternoon or early evening and it is still rocking, I am going to pip it to see what is going on in there.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
Good luck with the hatch and the ones still working! I know how excited everyone is here as we get eggs pipping and rocking!

BTW we like pictures

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Hi Cook!

Let me guess that little hole seems like it just wasn't really developed at all, huh? You know how an ember or match will burn a nice hole right through polyester or something like that, does the hole sort of resemble that but looks like what melted dropped through the hole to almost land on the membrane of the egg? Did any of that make sense?

I have got eggs like that.

I posted this article once before in another thread hoping that it would be discussed and thought that it had merit. Maybe this time.
Borrowed from Wikipedia.


"The default color of vertebrate eggs is the white of the calcium carbonate from which the shells are made, but some birds, mainly passerines, produce colored eggs. The pigments biliverdin and its zinc chelate give a green or blue ground color, and protoporphyrin produces reds and browns as a ground color or as spotting.

Non-passerines typically have white eggs, except in some ground-nesting groups such as the Charadriiformes, sandgrouse and nightjars, where camouflage is necessary, and some parasitic cuckoos which have to match the passerine host's egg. Most passerines, in contrast, lay colored eggs, even if there is no need of cryptic colors.

However, a recent study suggests that the protoporphyrin markings on passerine eggs actually act to reduce brittleness by acting as a solid state lubricant. If there is insufficient calcium available in the local soil, the egg shell may be thin, especially in a circle around the broad end. Protoporphyrin speckling compensates for this, and increases inversely to the amount of calcium in the soil.

For the same reason, later eggs in a clutch are more spotted than early ones as the female's store of calcium is depleted.

The color of individual eggs is also genetically influenced, and appears to be inherited through the mother only, suggesting that the gene responsible for pigmentation is on the sex determining W chromosome (female birds are WZ, males ZZ).

It used to be thought that color was applied to the shell immediately before laying, but this research shows that coloration is an integral part of the development of the shell, with the same protein responsible for depositing calcium carbonate, or protoporphyrins when there is a lack of that mineral.

In species such as the Common Guillemot, which nest in large groups, each female's eggs have very different markings, making it easier for females to identify their own eggs on the crowded cliff ledges on which they breed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(biolog…

Life was rushing by to fast to comment at the time, but wanted to bring this up again, for any insights, specifically this sentence:

"The color of individual eggs is also genetically influenced, and appears to be inherited through the mother only, suggesting that the gene responsible for pigmentation is on the sex determining W chromosome (female birds are WZ, males ZZ)."

I've always believed/heard that the roo contributed 50% of the color gene, and to always use a roo that hatched from a dark egg. That the roo's gene was most important
because he is genetically 50% of the flock.
My pullets are just starting to lay, and I'm finding that their eggs are nearly identical to their Mama's from different lines. BCM (Dark brown, rounder, no stippling) Blue Coppers (Dark, ruby red brown w/ stippling and oval)...same Dad. Is he immaterial regarding egg color after all? If so, it would be so much easier to select a roo since it is difficult enough to pick a roo based on
conformation, let alone what egg color he hatched from.

I only kept 2 girls and 1 boy that made the "cut" though...would really like to hear of others experience with larger flocks as to the roo's egg color contribution.

BTW Hiya Pink. Been following your hatch "adventures" on other threads. I must be leading a parallel life on the east coast...I have Dellie eggs in the bator,
love da' Blues and Wellies, too!

Hi CP!
I always thought that as well and still do, but I find everything else in that article very fascinating. You know there is very little info out there about this, I keep looking and reading hoping to find something to share and enlighten us about egg color and genetics but I have yet to uncover it, there are so many college/university lectures and publications to filter through on chicken genetics it is like a whirlwind. When I do you can sure betcha I will be sharing with everyone.

 

[Ivywoods]

If a rooster doesn't contribute anything toward egg color, then why is it that if you cross a BCM brown egg ROOSTER with an ameraucana blue egg hen you get and OLIVE egg? (combination of brown and blue.)

The rooster must have contributed SOMETHING!