Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Wynette]

I have another question for you about the white in the hackles in juvies. I was wondering if the presence of white at the base of feathers could appear when it comes time for them to hit their juvenile molt and then after molt will go away? I regularly check my birds for the presence of white in both the blue and black coppers in the wings, tail, base of tail fluff, hackles and etc and before about 3 weeks ago there was nothing. This age group I found two cockerels with this, so just curious if it is more the molt, than something negative. I've not had too much experience with white in the hackles.

If they're going to get it, I begin to notice it at about the 16-18 week mark. It's not a molt issue; it's a color issue. Unfortunately, most of the black copper and blue copper out there have it. I know that Don believes this can be culled out; I am hopeful that he's right. It's not a fault, nor a DQ; however, I've asked 4 judges about this directly, and all 4 replied that they view this is a "problem" that will become worse in the future if not corrected now.

Alright, all those that run bigger Marans breeding programs. I'm working on getting down to the best stock for holding over winter for breeding stock in the spring. How many cockerels/cocks do you typically hold over?
So far I am at a holding pattern with 13 including Coppers and Birchens. I don't have individual breeding pens for pairs in large fowl, so I'm either gonna need to come up with something fast, or somehow cull down some more. I like each of these for different reasons. grrr

Coppers I have:
Blacks
Gigantor
Geronimo (Gigantor's offspring from last spring)
Alternate Roo (he's responsible for some of my best hens)
A young 6 month old BCM (very tankly)

Blues
young 6 month old I posted picture of the other day

Splash
Big Boy (my avatar)
2 young 6 month old cockerels that are really well matched with Big Boy)


Birchens I have:

Blacks
a 3 year old from original eggs
young 6 month old cockerels

Blues
3 young 6 month old cockerels

I don't know what your situation is, but many folks run all their large fowl together in a very large enclosure (like a barn). I don't have a situation that I can do that in, I have individual pens for mine, but I sure wish I DID have a large barn I could utilize to run them all together for the winter. The friends I have that do this do not have issues with cock birds fighting, and all of them say they sort of keep within their own groups, pretty much, within the enclosure.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
If everyone remembers back when we were discussing the white feathers and white undercolor. Walt was involved and agreed to take the question to the entire committee at Washington state show. What he came back with was the white feathers were a DQ and the white undercolor was a FAULT. If anyone culls for these you can eliminate it from your Marans. The Marans producing these usually have white shanks and feet. Any of the Marans with the straw colored hackle also had white feet and shanks.
These are just things that showed up in the Marans I had here.
It is much easier to run the Marans males together if you have a barn that is kinda dark, if you have them where they go out in the rain they will most likely fight everytime it rains. One of the draw backs to having them in a dark room is their comb will grow larger than normal.

 

[Wynette]

If everyone remembers back when we were discussing the white feathers and white undercolor. Walt was involved and agreed to take the question to the entire committee at Washington state show. What he came back with was the white feathers were a DQ and the white undercolor was a FAULT. If anyone culls for these you can eliminate it from your Marans. The Marans producing these usually have white shanks and feet. Any of the Marans with the straw colored hackle also had white feet and shanks.
These are just things that showed up in the Marans I had here.
It is much easier to run the Marans males together if you have a barn that is kinda dark, if you have them where they go out in the rain they will most likely fight everytime it rains. One of the draw backs to having them in a dark room is their comb will grow larger than normal.

Don, can you link me, as I don't recall this discussion; none of the 4 judges I spoke with indicated it was a fault or a DQ at all, so I would like clarification. Thanks.

Also, the males I have had with the white tail feathers did not have straw hackles, nor did they have off-colored shanks. I had a couple of really, really nice CH (Cottage Hill) males that had awesome type, but the tail feathers began to turn white. Their shanks were correct color, and color balance was optimal. I would love to see this eliminated, as it is not an aesthetically pleasing picture, to be sure.

 

[Wynette]

Okay, I have found the post by Walt regarding the white feather issue:

So, what your comittee is discussing Walt, if I am understanding, is whether or not we should be treating BLACK BASED (not just solid black) birds the same way we look at blacks, so far as the white goes - is this correct? I guess what I'm taking from this is that it's DEFINITELY not a DQ or a fault to NOT have it, whereas it MAY be a fault or DQ if a bird DOES have it. Thus...just breed to remove it.

ETA: I guess the word "just" is thrown in there pretty casually, but I think y'all know what I mean.

We have a ways to go with this issue as it has to be approved by the Board of Directors. My personal opinion is that I am undecided if it should be a DQ or not. I can say here that I think it is a huge fault IMO. You see white in other parti colored birds too. The other thing that plays into this is that some varieties....like black leghorns......seem to be impossible to breed with yellow legs and no white in the tail of the male. Our committee has to look at a lot more things than most people realize. As an example...is it genetically possible? (I am not talking Marans here). Our committee does not want to back breed clubs into a corner they can't get out of.....this is why you see certain DQ's and cuts specific to varieties or breeds and not found in the general cuts and DQ's.

if there is a change to the SOP, we have to look at every angle of that change...cuz we don't want to have to change it back to what it was. This is why we are doing this revision. This is the only time we can make significant changes without going through too many fiery hoops. They still have to be approved by the APA board. It should not be easy to change the SOP. If it was it wouldn't mean anything. I wish I could post some of the crazy things people want to change....most of it because that is the way their birds look.

Walt

 

[Wynette]

I completely agree that the white feather issue is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's just plain UGLY and look as if it doens't belong . It's a shame, as I have seen some birds with quite nice type that have a white tail feather. In a dark based bird, it just doesn't look right, but I also DO wonder if we are, as Walt mentioned, backing ourselves in to a corner...it's something being discussed with some of the breeders on another forum, this balance of attempting to "force" genetics into a bird that just isn't set up to accept the force....I'm not a wordsmyth, but hopefully my point comes across.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Wynette, I believe the fastest way to get this info. just PM Walt as he should remember. Probably the only Judge that would know what went on there in Washington would be one of the committee members. I can look in the SOP also as it should be there.

 

[Wynette]

Wynette, I believe the fastest way to get this info. just PM Walt as he should remember. Probably the only Judge that would know what went on there in Washington would be one of the committee members. I can look in the SOP also as it should be there.

Thanks, Don - I found it & recopied it above.

 

[Zanna]

Don, can you link me, as I don't recall this discussion; none of the 4 judges I spoke with indicated it was a fault or a DQ at all, so I would like clarification. Thanks.

Also, the males I have had with the white tail feathers did not have straw hackles, nor did they have off-colored shanks. I had a couple of really, really nice CH (Cottage Hill) males that had awesome type, but the tail feathers began to turn white. Their shanks were correct color, and color balance was optimal. I would love to see this eliminated, as it is not an aesthetically pleasing picture, to be sure.

My limited experience is the same as Wynettes. Here is the Cock and his son, they were both culled. Cock came in with two white tailfeathers at over two years old, son came in with them before a year old and also a white feather in the wing. Both had white underfluff. The sons legs look lighter in this pic. than they really were.

 

[TRUE5]

I was wondering (and I'm sure this has been asked before) on how many of you use the dry method to hatch your Marans eggs. I am getting some this week and the breeder told me to have the humidity down to 20% but spike it up to 65% the last 3 days or so. Do any of you find this method better or do you just treat them like any other egg? I am quite nervous because I really just want to get this right and not drown any chicks or shrink wrap them in the same token. I know the basics of incubating but I just need input on the humidity levels that you all use. Or maybe you file the shell down a little? My other question would be which do you prefer to do, weigh the egg or try to candle? I would SO GREATLY appreciate anything you all have to say! Thanks!!!

 

[Wynette]

I was wondering (and I'm sure this has been asked before) on how many of you use the dry method to hatch your Marans eggs. I am getting some this week and the breeder told me to have the humidity down to 20% but spike it up to 65% the last 3 days or so. Do any of you find this method better or do you just treat them like any other egg? I am quite nervous because I really just want to get this right and not drown any chicks or shrink wrap them in the same token. I know the basics of incubating but I just need input on the humidity levels that you all use. Or maybe you file the shell down a little? My other question would be which do you prefer to do, weigh the egg or try to candle? I would SO GREATLY appreciate anything you all have to say! Thanks!!!

I have tried dry hatching and it honeslty just has never worked out that well for me. But, if the eggs are LOCAL for you, I would do what the breeder recommends. I believe that altitude has a great deal to do with whether dry hatching works or not. I also believe you need to get used to your incubator and what works well in that specific unit. BEST OF LUCK - hope you have a fantastic hatch!!