Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!
- Thread starter Wynette
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I see. I'm not arguing for or against anything, just trying to understand the argument. But if breeders are culling for these that means they're still showing up, right? So are all breeders with wheaten influenced birds popping up not using pure/true Black Coppers? Don, you mentioned that you've culled 100's of birds this year with the same issue. Does that mean that your birds are not pure/true Black Coppers or that there's really no way to identify the correctly colored birds that are carrying the gene? I'm assuming since you're culling so heavily that your breeders meet the standard for Black Coppers in terms of color, but why then are there still 100's cropping up that have to be culled? I guess what I'm asking is what is the likelihood that holding out for a rooster that doesn't exhibit any wheaten influence going to increase my chances of eliminating the gene from my breeding pen if so many correctly colored birds are producing culls? Probably better than if I'm using a rooster I KNOW has the gene! But to what degree?
I know what you're saying, I just hope I can word it right! If you can actually SEE the influences in a bird, that would be a hint as to what's behind it. On the other hand, if you had say ten birds from the same roo and different hens, then you may get some normal colored BCMs and get some WI (wheaton influenced) birds. The rub lies with the birds that come across as "normal" BCM. It would take two recessive genes (one from the roo, one from the hen) to express itself in the chick. So if the WI is not expressed in the chick, it still has the one recessive gene from the roo. Now, breed that chick to the daddy, and bingo, you've got two recessive genes again. If you breed it to an outside source, you may or may not know if they are carrying the gene...and so it goes. A crap shoot until you breed, but the ones that physically display the color influences would be a good hint as to what's back there! Phew...I'm spent!
Right, that's a good explanation. So hens can also carry the recessive gene? Can it ever be physically identified like with the roos?
I see. I'm not arguing for or against anything, just trying to understand the argument. But if breeders are culling for these that means they're still showing up, right? So are all breeders with wheaten influenced birds popping up not using pure/true Black Coppers? Don, you mentioned that you've culled 100's of birds this year with the same issue. Does that mean that your birds are not pure/true Black Coppers or that there's really no way to identify the correctly colored birds that are carrying the gene? I'm assuming since you're culling so heavily that your breeders meet the standard for Black Coppers in terms of color, but why then are there still 100's cropping up that have to be culled? I guess what I'm asking is what is the likelihood that holding out for a rooster that doesn't exhibit any wheaten influence going to increase my chances of eliminating the gene from my breeding pen if so many correctly colored birds are producing culls? Probably better than if I'm using a rooster I KNOW has the gene! But to what degree?
I know what you're saying, I just hope I can word it right! If you can actually SEE the influences in a bird, that would be a hint as to what's behind it. On the other hand, if you had say ten birds from the same roo and different hens, then you may get some normal colored BCMs and get some WI (wheaton influenced) birds. The rub lies with the birds that come across as "normal" BCM. It would take two recessive genes (one from the roo, one from the hen) to express itself in the chick. So if the WI is not expressed in the chick, it still has the one recessive gene from the roo. Now, breed that chick to the daddy, and bingo, you've got two recessive genes again. If you breed it to an outside source, you may or may not know if they are carrying the gene...and so it goes. A crap shoot until you breed, but the ones that physically display the color influences would be a good hint as to what's back there! Phew...I'm spent!
Right, that's a good explanation. So hens can also carry the recessive gene? Can it ever be physically identified like with the roos?
great pictures ,,, are they your wheaten ?
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n.smithurmond wrote ~ Not as easy to see in the pullets. The brown feathering on the belly/vent fluff would be a hint. I have yet to see, with my very limited experience, or have yet to hear of pullets displaying it with white hackle/tail fluff. I'm not sure why that is?
Also, since it's recessive, wouldn't using a rooster carrying the gene allow me to determine which of my hens carries it? Otherwise I could still end up with chicks having one copy of the gene, just from the hen rather than the rooster. That doesn't seem like an improvement...
please no comments onthe chicken lol lol but how about comments on my first cabin shed i ever built ?
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n.smithurmond :
Also, since it's recessive, wouldn't using a rooster carrying the gene allow me to determine which of my hens carries it? Otherwise I could still end up with chicks having one copy of the gene, just from the hen rather than the rooster. That doesn't seem like an improvement...
Most definately, if you are single breeding them, and hatching only what that hen lays. Then you should be able to rule out which hen is carrying the gene as well. That said, sometimes genes don't cooperate as the book says they should!
It may take a couple of such breedings, or more to be sure. More experienced folks should chime in now!
Also, since it's recessive, wouldn't using a rooster carrying the gene allow me to determine which of my hens carries it? Otherwise I could still end up with chicks having one copy of the gene, just from the hen rather than the rooster. That doesn't seem like an improvement...
Most definately, if you are single breeding them, and hatching only what that hen lays. Then you should be able to rule out which hen is carrying the gene as well. That said, sometimes genes don't cooperate as the book says they should!
did u mean drinking ,,,, way ahead of u
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Looks like you're off to a good start! Now for a roof, door, and some serious chinking!
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Looks like you're off to a good start! Now for a roof, door, and some serious chinking!
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