Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

I can't speak for other people, only my own stock. The work I have done is evident and honestly they are the only birds I can be held responsible for. I'm might be young to some of the breeders that have been in it for years, but having been raised by an old time breeder, I am one myself. I don't believe things such as combs, leg color, or the like can be ignored as one moves forward with type. Leg color, eye color, color pattern, type, size and etc are all genetic material and it is a delicate balancing act of give and take when working towards the best the marans can be.

My dear Vicki, chronological age has nothing to do with it! I am an old fart just starting, soooo. Personal experience trumps age every time! Keep doing what you are doing gal!!

 

[snowbird]

Don, I would ask YOU the same question. Where would you suggest I go to find Marans with the proper type and breed shape?

Then maybe we can argue about how I should paint my barn. With or without help from Mendel.

Barb, Remember I said before that there were only two people with BC that had what I would be looking for in buying Marans. I have one BC male that is three year old and tomorrow I am going to some of the egg farms and see if I can buy some of the female BC I sold last year. There has to be some out there as I sold about 350 hens and Pullets and they will be free of white.

That old saying about build the barn first is just a snappy saying that looks good in print. One reason it is hard to get some good Marans is because the folks that have them are reluctant to let them go as they will be on all the auctions within 60 days. I am not saying this would be you but it is true for most. Just hold on a little and will see what I can do here. When the weather warms up still have plans to have the Seminar. Several in this area want to come also.

 

[slick4591]

[/quote]

Those certainly set the bar really high.

 

[Debbi]

Barb ~ I have to extrapilate on the last post. For type, read the SOP for the breed. That describes the basic bird in it's form, and what type of comb, shank feathering, eye color it should have, and what the DQs are. These are the basics for the BREED. Now, go to the variety you want to breed. The colors, of shanks, toes, and feathers may be different. For example, a Wheaten hen with black legs, would be a DQ, if not genetically impossible. Red breasted BCM hens would be a DQ. Any color with white feathers is a DQ. So the little stuff does matter. Egg color is stated as "must be a 4 or better somtime within the laying cycle". So if all the other faults are present in the bird laying that great colored egg, does it meet the criteria of being a Marans?? In my opinion, NO. It must meet the SOP and the variety criteria, and then meet the minimal egg color criteria as well. That is what makes this breed such a challenge! The problems that we are seeing now within the different varieites, is because of people interjecting different breeds into the mix to try to darken the egg color artificially! That is exactly why the minor points like combs and colors, are so crucial to retaining the qualities of what the breed as a whole, and the different varieties should be strived for. Maybe that is just my line of thinking, I don't know; but if we have Carnation combed, Leghorn bodied birds, who may lay a #8 egg; that to me is NOT a Marans! JMO

Maybe just me, but I think in the flurry, my post (above) got over looked. Am I wrong in my thinking??

 

[desertmarcy]

On a different topic from type, may I ask what you all do when pairing up birds as far as pens go? Do you find that if you move pullets or hens to a different space, they quit laying due to the move?
I had moved all my Blue Copper pullets to individual 4' x 4' pens for a while, until I felt I knew which was laying which color, so I could use that information in deciding which to breed. When I finally moved them all back into the big pen, one of them, which was fine with the others originally, got picked on badly and I had to isolate her. In my setup, I have big pens that can house 15 birds easily without crowding. Then I have a bunch of 4' X 4' pens that are mainly used to house individual males but could be used for single mating or to house individual pullets so I know they eggs came from that bird. I do not have trap nests, something I'd like in the future, but for now, I need to work with what I have. A friend suggested using pen-within-a-pen to separate pullets I want to collect eggs from, using those portable folding dog exercise pens, put a top on so bird stays in, a small nest box and food/water bowls and set it up in the main pen. That way the bird is not in isolation and the others can still see her and she doesn't become a stranger and hard to integrate back into the flock. If I just put the cockerel in with the flock and collect eggs, I will not know which pullet laid them and at this point, I think I should know that. Comments, suggestions on how best to do this? Thanks

 

[gilavina]

Maybe just me, but I think in the flurry, my post got over looked. Am I wrong in my thinking??

no, you aren't wrong lady, we were saying pretty much the same thing! Its all about balance. The Marans are tough nuts to crack and we all have our own way of working towards their improvement, but they all have to fit through the filter of the SOP, their color variety and lay above a 4 to be a Marans and all the finer details are in the SOP.

 

[gilavina]

Barb, Remember I said before that there were only two people with BC that had what I would be looking for in buying Marans. I have one BC male that is three year old and tomorrow I am going to some of the egg farms and see if I can buy some of the female BC I sold last year. There has to be some out there as I sold about 350 hens and Pullets and they will be free of white.

That old saying about build the barn first is just a snappy saying that looks good in print. One reason it is hard to get some good Marans is because the folks that have them are reluctant to let them go as they will be on all the auctions within 60 days. I am not saying this would be you but it is true for most. Just hold on a little and will see what I can do here. When the weather warms up still have plans to have the Seminar. Several in this area want to come also.

I'm looking forward to the seminar. Any word on whether it will be recorded for those of us that might not be able to go? I'd love to see if I could make it, but with the way things are going as far as spare time, I'm lucky to have a few hours a week to decide what I want to do, let alone try to get away for something longer than that.

 

[snowbird]

Barb ~ I have to extrapilate on the last post. For type, read the SOP for the breed. That describes the basic bird in it's form, and what type of comb, shank feathering, eye color it should have, and what the DQs are. These are the basics for the BREED. Now, go to the variety you want to breed. The colors, of shanks, toes, and feathers may be different. For example, a Wheaten hen with black legs, would be a DQ, if not genetically impossible. Red breasted BCM hens would be a DQ. Any color with white feathers is a DQ. So the little stuff does matter. Egg color is stated as "must be a 4 or better somtime within the laying cycle". So if all the other faults are present in the bird laying that great colored egg, does it meet the criteria of being a Marans?? In my opinion, NO. It must meet the SOP and the variety criteria, and then meet the minimal egg color criteria as well. That is what makes this breed such a challenge! The problems that we are seeing now within the different varieites, is because of people interjecting different breeds into the mix to try to darken the egg color artificially! That is exactly why the minor points like combs and colors, are so crucial to retaining the qualities of what the breed as a whole, and the different varieties should be strived for. Maybe that is just my line of thinking, I don't know; but if we have Carnation combed, Leghorn bodied birds, who may lay a #8 egg; that to me is NOT a Marans! JMO

Debbi, this is my thought also, we also must remember that there will always be differences of opinion on what should be. I very much like to hear other breeding methods, just want them from someone that has walked the walk.

 

[Debbi]

On a different topic from type, may I ask what you all do when pairing up birds as far as pens go? Do you find that if you move pullets or hens to a different space, they quit laying due to the move?
I had moved all my Blue Copper pullets to individual 4' x 4' pens for a while, until I felt I knew which was laying which color, so I could use that information in deciding which to breed. When I finally moved them all back into the big pen, one of them, which was fine with the others originally, got picked on badly and I had to isolate her. In my setup, I have big pens that can house 15 birds easily without crowding. Then I have a bunch of 4' X 4' pens that are mainly used to house individual males but could be used for single mating or to house individual pullets so I know they eggs came from that bird. I do not have trap nests, something I'd like in the future, but for now, I need to work with what I have. A friend suggested using pen-within-a-pen to separate pullets I want to collect eggs from, using those portable folding dog exercise pens, put a top on so bird stays in, a small nest box and food/water bowls and set it up in the main pen. That way the bird is not in isolation and the others can still see her and she doesn't become a stranger and hard to integrate back into the flock. If I just put the cockerel in with the flock and collect eggs, I will not know which pullet laid them and at this point, I think I should know that. Comments, suggestions on how best to do this? Thanks

Instead of moving the hens, how about moving the roos into their pens? At least you would know who the roo was to all of the hens, then use the trap nests to see what hen was producing what. JMO

 

[snowbird]

I'm looking forward to the seminar. Any word on whether it will be recorded for those of us that might not be able to go? I'd love to see if I could make it, but with the way things are going as far as spare time, I'm lucky to have a few hours a week to decide what I want to do, let alone try to get away for something longer than that.

Vicki, yes it will be filmed as I have lined someone up with a movie camera.