Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[cpartist]

Quote:
Good question! The proposed SOP used to say, "hens may have the beetle green sheen, but is not necessary". Just went to the MMCU, and now all it says is black. So, is the beetle now a fault in pullet and hens??? I LIKE my beetles!

Debbi, there is a timely discussion going on at the Yahoo Marans site regarding the "green sheen". I think they are talking about Blacks, not Black Coppers, but interesting reading.
Walt weighs in with this comment...(I hope I'm not out of line for quoting you Walt)

fowlman01@... wrote:
The way the current proposed Standard is written I could not see an APA
licensed judge marking a bird down for green sheen in black
feathers.....especially a male. My guess is that they would view it as a
positive attribute in a Marans.

I've wondered about this as one of the genetics experts that comments sometimes on this thread has said that the Black Coppers
should not have the green sheen, and I really respect and defer to his knowledge.

I've also read elsewhere that "green sheen" is a result of feather formation and not genetics, but cannot remember the source.

I will say that I have never had any of the white feathers show up in my flock. I choose not to use any hatchlings that had any red breasts or mossiness,
and I think as a result of this, my breeders and offspring definately have the "green sheen" goin' on, and I've not had to deal with mossy or white feathers...
so maybe the green is the opposite of too much red/brown, and a result of breeding away from the mossy and too red? Clueless to the genetics, but I too like the way
the black with beetle green glows in the light.

I've other issues, mainly getting more copper into my Blue Copper girls, and more complete shank feathering, but it seems to me that it may be easier
to breed in a trait than breed one out, and I'm thankful that whatever faults my Marans start gave me to deal with, do not include white feathers after reading
Don's struggles to breed this out.

A green sheen cockerel:

and young pullet with the green goin' on:

 

[Illia]

Personally if it really were true that a Black Copper must not have a beetle green sheen, that's ridiculous. All other relative colors such as Wheaten, BBR, Duckwing, etc have and are allowed the green sheen. It's a natural trait.

 

[ruth]

Quote:
My little pea brain just can't cipher in one more trait to look for/breed for/breed out.

 

[jeremy]

Ruth, your birds are the reason I want Marans! Those eggs, that rooster, those hens are all AMAZING!

 

[rebel-rousing-at-night]

Quote:
.

 

[geebs]

The beetle green sheen is part of the melaniser... The more black you have the more of the sheen you will have.. The darkest mahogany birds have the most and the mossy leaky birds have the least and so there is more color in the breast of the birds etc... it is also responsible for eye color and shanks that is what you are balancing.. My understanding is that a good balanced BC has the green sheen on the top half and is a duller black on the underside.. same for females. The more beetle green you have the less the color can show through.

Females and males both can have it... It is not a requirement... It comes with the territory

Here is an example of all three... The male has too much melaniser... the female on the end too little and the one in the middle has the best balance.. I hope this gives you an idea.

Here is a prized pair of mine...I like the balance on both of these... are they perfect NOPE but they are good.

Rebel Rousing at Night (love the name) There is quite a bit of scenery on this thread.. So sorry it is like that... The dark egg thread has a much friendlier atmosphere... Lots of heated debates here... Passionate ppl...

 

[math ace]

HEY PW-QUILTWORKS - -

Thanks for keeping me company the night they shut down this thread and
I started the one where we could not use the M_ _ _ _ S word !

 

[math ace]

Quote:
Rebel-rousing-at-night - - - POST in BOTH threads. . .

We have the reputation for being the "NOT NICE" thread.
The "NOT NICE" part is due to the fact that we are willing to have PAGES of discussion of the semantics of marans.
SOMETIMES it gets intense, BUT it is all for the sake of learning . . .
ADDITIONALLY, you will find that many on this thread DO POST on the other thread too!

IMO, You will see a greater variety of ADVICE and OPINIONS on this thread.
The very conversation you are following is one of the few topics that negativity shows up in.
We are ALL greatly disappointed culling great numbers of birds to achieve SQ marans.

There are a LOT more of us on this thread WITHOUT SQ Marans than with - - - So please post your question . . .

PS - - - I only post on this marans thread.
SO, friends

know I that

Love Ya and am by no means trying to offend anyone !

 

[math ace]

Quote:
Nice example Geebs.

 

[BevDavis]

Quote:
I thought the intent of this thread was so we could all learn, compare notes, and ALL improve our birds. It's beginning to sound like a "who has the best bird" contest.

I, for one, would like to continue asking questions, reading critiques, and learning what things to watch for in my own flock.

Me too Wynette. That's just it. I don't think anyone has the "perfect" bird but the thread is starting to become a "beauty pagent" where APA SOP is the most important thing. I realize it is to "show people" but I just want to remind everyone that most people out there are not show people. They are kind of excluded from this thread and afraid to "jump in" and post or to ask questions. I know, because they write to me and most order birds. Why.....not because they intend to show but because so many of those that do won't sell their birds because they aren't perfected yet.

As I stated a little earlier, on closer inspection, I would have to cull my entire flock. The endless list has taken its toll even on me and I thought I was pretty "non-involved" in the APA SOP "thing". The "fun" can be drained if it becomes nothing more than a "well that one's not good enough...that one either....nor that one" mentality when you look around your flock.

I liked the "old days" when everyone who got BCMs was so thrilled. Now it's more like, all those same people are now disappointed.

Hi

I have just returned from vacation and haven't read very much for the last three weeks but I will jump in here and answer a few questions. I do have jet lag so please forgive me if .......

One of the requirements to get a breed accepted by the APA is that five people have been breeding Marans for five years. I believe I was one that signed that I had, in fact, I have been breeding black copper for much longer and so had the other people who signed. My birds aren't perfect and never will be, one or two may come close but certainly not all of them. No one has the perfect bird just the same as no one has the perfect child. Some people that like to breed birds will breed for one aspect of the bird one year and something else the next. They might even have to go back the following year to correct something that they thought they had corrected the previous year.

When I came to America in 1996, I wanted some Marans just like the ones I had in Wales/England. I couldn't get any and joined a Marans club in the hope that I would be successful. Eventually, I did manage to get some but when they arrived, some were black and some didn't even look like Marans. At that time, as far as I knew all Marans were cuckoo and should have laid a large deep terra cotta egg. Out of all the chicks, there was one pullet that laid a dark egg but to be honest, it wasn't even the accepted color for an egg. I bought eggs, I bought birds and was told they laid very dark eggs, I was disappointed each time. I did try to import a couple of times and failed for various reasons. The only way forward as far as I could see was to breed for better birds and egg color.

I was almost kicked out of the first club because I objected when it was proposed that the standard for the birds had yellow legs. The quality of bird in those was very poor compared to what we have now. Yellow legs were very common and as for feathers on the legs, forget it.

Over the years I have learnt a lot, done a lot of breeding and met some very fine people along the way. Rome was not built in a day and I would be very foolish if I thought it was. What you all have now is the result of a lot of breeding that has been done by a lot of people. Most of the major faults have already been bred out. I am sure there are faults also that have been bred in, the road has not been an easy one to follow.

I think the main thing is to enjoy your birds and if you want to show, that is fine. It's also fine just to have birds to enjoy and not to look at them with a critical eye all the time. Marans is a very young breed in America and there will be people who will develop their own lines. Some will want nicer looking birds and some darker eggs. Please appreciate what you already have, although you see faults there are good things as well.

Bev