Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[geebs]

I LOVE his general outline.. That comb... Omgoodness... I can't get past the background!!!! And the leg feathering... So nice!!! I will give you a real critique when I can get my jaw off the ground.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
Everyone is welcome here - no Marans, one Marans, or hundreds of Marans. Just be forewarned that if you hang out here you'll quickly go from one Marans to many Marans.

yes it is very addicting! I am trying to figure out with our current lay out how adding some would work(we just completed a 10' x12' coop, which is what worked for the area we have), our kids are using the breeds we have for 4-H and currently have 4 breeds going, adding some girls would be easy enough, it's another rooster that worries me as we have 7 now..... will have to think on that some more

 

[VillageChicken]

I posted for the first time a few days ago... have read a few more pages of this thread since then, but am still only on page 256.
I have a potentially ignorant question about the genetics of BCMs.

I have read up somewhat on chicken genetics, so am not totally clueless, but several times I have read on this thread about BCMs producing Gold, Copper and Mahogany Hackle/Saddle.
Is everyone 100% certain that this is not due to Wheaten influence and the corresponding absence of homozygous mahogany?

We know that Wheaten has been introduced to BCM in the past, and standard wheaten genetics (at least on the calculator, couldn't find it on the Aussie site) does NOT carry Mahogany. So while the Wheaten genotype hides under the dominant ER birchen, it also could introduce lack of Mahogany.

Is it at all possible that the "ideal" copper color is the heterozygous Mh/mh? I've tried to find if the Mh allele is incompletely dominant, don't know for certain. Breeding to this perfect copper would create the same dilemma as the Andalusian Blue and Dark Cuckoo English Marans Roos - at least half of what you breed won't be right unless you ALWAYS breed complementary birds, e.g. too much mahogany Mh/Mh with too little mh/mh.

It's possible that this is a moot point if it has been proven that the prominent lines in the US are all Mh/Mh and the difference is just in the phenotypic expression.

Maybe you all already discussed this in the 200 plus pages I haven't read yet.
Am I the only one curious about this?

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Someone posted what I said over there about the green sheen a few pages back in this thread. I don't see it as a problem. I believe they were talking about black Marans though. Off hand I can't think of a chicken where green sheen black would be a problem in the show ring. It CAN indicate that there are some undesirable color genes however. Many old time breeders like to see a couple red feathers in the hackle of a breeder male to show that it will produce offspring with a nice green sheen. I had somebody tell me that green sheen is a positive proof that red exists in the chicken. I responded.."what about Sumatras"? I haven't heard back from her on that one. No doubt way back when there might be jungle fowl in Sumatras, but I don't think anyone would put any red looking bird with a Sumatra to improve it.

In terms of the BC's I don't see sheen as a problem. If BC is really brown red, then I have a question. Brown red OEG's have a very distinct black in the females and it does not show green sheen. I can't explain it, it is not a dull black, but it is very distinctive and in my mind beautiful. If someone here knows what I am talking about I would love an explanation of why it is different than other blacks in chickens. BTW: I don't want an algebra like equation, I would like it explained in layman's terms so that we can all understand it.

Walt

 

[geebs]

Harris5

Comb count is off but nice BIG COMB…
Good eye color,
Good general shape, fits into the standard shape…
It looks like there is a little enamaline on the ear but it could be the light
Horn color is good
Body color is a little less than optimal for breeding forward the proper color in the hens a little more saddle color and some flecking in the chest (flames)
He is likely not to add additional color in the hackles on his new females looking at the girls beside him
The lighter color hackle may indicate a wheaton gene
The tail is nice and short.. When it fills in it will be very proper looking
Shank color optimal
Leg feathering Optimal
He is young and has the stuff that it takes confirmation wise.. I would try to use maybe an overcolored femal and see if you couldn’t better the color on a son…
He should fill in to be a nice HUSKY fellow.

This is what I see… Others may vary

 

[ruth]

Quote:
WOW - see your new here and you know way more about genetics than I do. When it comes to genetics, I'm a lot like Prissy in GWTW...."Lordy, Lordy Miss Scarlett, I don't know nothing bout birthing no babies."

 

[geebs]

Villagechicken.. You are on to something

I am not good with the genetic code written.. Just illudes me…. But:

When all the other balance in the chicken looks either good or too dark… Shank color eye color too much black in chest etc… (and correct me if I am wrong Blackdotte, Bev, Aalbury) Then you see too much melaniser… Ask yourself.... why would there be a yellow hackle.. To me that is understood as the possible presence of the underlying wheaton… It is also showing up in the lighter color shank though the bird seems to have too little color in the saddle and the presence of mahogany. Find Blackdotte and ask him about the equations with the letters.. He is one of the best at understanding this… I could be completely off base and would like to be corrected if I understand this incorrectly.

The French state that the presence of straw in the hackle is to be rejected without hesitation…I surmise this is to cull the wheaton out of the line…(I don’t remember now where I read that)

You are correct in saying that the product and the parentage will have a completely different phenotype.. It is important to have the flames in the chest to produce enough red in the female to create more good males later on… It is a sticky wicked…

This is just my small understanding of things.

I hope this is what you were asking.

As with the Andelusian blue you will always have to breed back to the black to maintain good lacing.

 

[geebs]

Let's chat about the length of this thread - there have now been two folks indicating they've received e-mails or PMs from folks worried about joining in now that it's gotten so long. What are your opinions - should be close this, call it "Marans thread #2" with dates in the subject or something, and open a new one

Great idea Wynette.... I am just expanding on that thought


The length of the thread could be shortened if we specialized topics

How to prepare marans for show
In the marans breeding pen
Balancing the copper
Color faults for marans etc.
Genetic underlying flaws
color driven genes

The post is called breeding, genetics and showing.. If we broke it down then there would be an easier way to sort through to the information one is after... Even if we just diversify to Breeding marans.... Genetics for marans, and Showing your marans.​

 

[Debbi]

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Dang it Geebs!! You just described Pip to a Tee! Does that mean if I bred him to a Wheaton hen, I would get some Wheatons and some BCMs?? Or were these the ones that didn't breed true? I've slept since then...

 

[Wynette]

I've been told (and I'm obviously no genetics expert) by a few long-time breeders of Marans that the "lightning" you speak of, geebsie, indicates a wheaten gene, which also adds the white underfluff and tail/wing feathers. That's why I have always culled out any with color in their chests. However, I DO have hens, now, with not enough color in their hackles. Hmmm...I just don't want to believe that I HAVE to have "lightning" in the chest in order to get good hackle color in my hens. I just don't like color in the chest. Am I being too stubborn?