Marans Thread for Posting Pics of Your Eggs, Chicks and Chickens

[lildinkem]

DROM:
I would be more then happy to show my Birchen as they develope. Interesting that the older line of Marans seem to have something going for them. I bought these guys back near 2 years ago.
Interesting to find out that Bruno's 1/2 brother, my Gorilla Monsoon, he is a Copper Black also & carries the Birchen gene. Betty Jo was the breeder, and she was known to let all stay together on these colder nites. And my first fall hatchlings were from Gorilla and my girls from Amy Buboltz's line. Gorilla has no feathers on the legs. And a couple of her birds didn't either. I just wanted to see what would come out of a small test hatch of 4 eggs. 3 hatched, and all are girls. And guess what? 2 are Birchens. lolol Gorilla threw a surprise. And in this case a welcome surprise. I will glady use them with Bruno also. To keep my Birchens healthy I might let Gorilla make his rounds through my flock. the one BCM girl he had, she looks good so far.
This is Gorilla, Bruno's 1/2 bro. I need to get a better pic of him too.

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
In the interests of encouraging a renewed interest in stewardship of poultry antiquities, (and please, everyone reading this, join or rejoin the SPPA, see Feathersite for information)
I brought mention of this curious heirloom lineage of the Bordeaux region forward- as a means to illustrate how each closed flock has its own intrinsic value. Learning over the years about the different colour types of Marans has been a bit more daunting for me as I have very little comprehension of the genetics of phenotypes - as it relates to inheritability.
I can distinguish a Black Marans from a Black Copper and a Golden Cuckoo from a Cuckoo and can recollect (from notes only) how different French Cultural Heritage Breeds like the Géline de Touraine and Cultural Treasure Breeds like the Gauloise dorée were utilized in the creation of what are considered distinct breeds unto themselves-the Black and the Black Breasted Red. I cannot however, recall with any clarity what - let me just plead ignorance here- are their conflicting terms in France vs the United States?
I keep thinking Black Copper is the breed with the black coloured hens with deep russet upper necks- roosters being somewhat mahogany and crimson contrasting with black.
Brown Red is what I thought the Buff Black Tailed Marans was known as. Thanks for helping me learn the difference. The Swiss developed the Golden Cuckoo but the Gold Salmon was perfected according to my sources in the Dijon region. Another breed that belongs to the Marans Clan is from Belgium and it is I think what they call Silver Black -and that breed came about through outcrossing with the old Hergnies. The Belgian Silver Black was brought to Switzerland where it was refined into a different sort of Birchen but I don't understand the terms of the colours or the translations of the terms of the colours and don't have much aptitude for it. I get the Gold Salmon and the Wheaten confused? Either or both of them were developed in Rouen or Metz in the north of France. I don't know for certain but think that the Gold Cuckoo was originally from Burgundy region of France and that there is a Swiss version and a French version -and again- in the minds of many of the poultiers interviewed, each of these colour types are distinct breeds unto themselves. I also heard repeated very often with every visit to just about every farm and without exception, that none of these sub breeds are actually Marans unless they produce a specific pigment of eggs and consistently at that. The full sister of a hen defined as a true Marans may share all her genes but is nonetheless only Marandaise.

 

[Resolution]

Im curious to see what colour the eggs are and what shape from these Birchen lines. Can anyone post some? I read a David Hancox piece about Marans and he explained some interesting mechanism of reversal in pigmentation -basically that the black copper ( if memory servers me correctly) can produce birchen via mutation- I wish I knew where I read that but it would appear that if DH is correct, (and he obviously comprehends facts) there are two very different 'birchen' colour forms out there that both closely resemble one another but arose through different means- the Belgian and Swiss Silver Black and Birchen types came about through infusion of the old Hergnies fowl genes. The Birchen Marans of France may well have arisen through the sort of specific mutation discussed by Hancox. If this is the case, and the two different "Birchens" are bred together, that would probably produce all sorts of random colour patterns and hues...

 

[drom]

Quote:
The MCF web site says that the Birchens and Black Coppers (Brown-Red) are in the same genetic family but the Birchens have a gene (s) for the silver hackle color which dominates the Black Copper allele (s+) for the copper hackle color. It states that in France the Birchens can lay some very dark eggs however they are apparently somewhat rare over there. The MCF web site also says that these birds can appear not only in Black Copper (Brown-Red) stock but also Silver Cuckoo stock.

I think in the US very few breeders are working with them and supposedly the egg color is not as developed yet here.

This is the only history the MCF has on their web site for them:

"During a long time, some farms of the poitevine area have still been keeping some Marans of every color like the Birchen, the golden-salmon and even the coppery blue.
Unfortunately, a lot of these subjects, although laying exceptional extra reddish-brown eggs, to be clearly faulty for the other standard points (too small size, few or no feathers on the tarsus, irregular figure or even black eyes).

Today, we meet, in some well known farmers of the MCF, some very correct Birchen stocks which present a good standard and especially very nice extra reddish-brown eggs.

It is advisable to notice that these Birchen founders are also very precious. They are notably exceptional to improve some lineages of silver-cuckoo Marans which have very often become inadequate if not unconventional on the quality plan of the extra reddish-brown eggs".

I think they are beautiful birds and what a nice project they would be.

 

[drom]

Quote:
Lucky you, to have that gene in your BCM stock. Good luck with your hatching this spring. I don't think I have ever seen a picture of a Birchen chick before. You can teach us all something this spring.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Cuckoo Roo x BCM hen

Your first generation of offspring should all carry the barring gene. All offspring should be black. However, it is likely that from this cross alot of the offspring will show copper leakage in their hackle and saddle feathers.
Males produced by this cross will only carry one copy of the barring gene and if crossed back to a cuckoo hen you would get all barred offspring. If you crossed the same male with one copy of the barring gene back to a solid bird such as the BCM, half of the offspring both male and female will carry the barring gene and the other half of will be black.

 

[lildinkem]

DROM: Yeah for people who live for projects, Gorilla's ability to throw both Copper and Birchen makes him a hot commodity. ALOT of ORP people would like to have a Marans without leg feathers to cull out in future generations.
I am happy to be able to use the Birchen chicks from the Gorilla breedings. And he will be making his rounds from pen to pen. The chicks look just like Copper Blacks when they hatch out. Virtually no difference at that age. I had to wait for the adult feathers to come in to even know. And I was happy when I see that these two are indeed Birchens.
I am into helping preserve the heritage of this variety, anyone in the future who like some, get with me in a few months and I will share.

 

[pinkchick]

Just look at what my youngest pullets are up to.

 

[amazondoc]

Folks--

black copper or copper black = brown red
silver black = birchen

ALL black copper birds have the "birchen" gene (ER), because the black copper pattern is BASED on ER. The only substantial difference between black copper and birchen birds is the presence of gold vs. silver (s+s+ vs. SS).

Many many birchen flocks are, unfortunately, carrying the gold gene. If your birchen roosters have any cream or gold coloration in any of their "silver" feathers, they are probably carrying gold. This is undesirable, and should be bred out. Silver is a sex-linked trait, so hens only have one copy of the gene -- they can be either silver or gold, but they can't "carry" anything. Look very carefully for gold or rust feathers in the hackles of the hens. If you find any, do NOT use them in a birchen breeding program.

 

[lildinkem]

amazondoc: Very interesting. I appreciate that tip. I will definitely look over the girls before they go into action. I can't see any rust in the feathers of Bruno, but I do know he came from Betty Jo, and I would not doubt that trait is present.
One question I just thought of while on this subject. Does the color get affected by the type of feed like it affects other White birds? Just interested IF anyone had heard of this?
The bottom two pics are of Bruno's brother, " George the Animal Steel ". Maybe he has the color feathers you are talking about, and that would mean Bruno would have the same genetics. Just a few other pics of my flocks to look over