Marek’s? (Eye Pics)

[microchick]

It's a big debate and ultimately it's the choice of the individual.

In my case the only way I could add chickens to my flock was to bring in vaccinated birds as the second generation of my Marek's hens all died before they were a year old with the exception of one bird.

Two days ago I lost one of my first of two bantam hens that I bought at Orschelns. She was 7 years old and died of reproductive issues/suspected cancer.

Her genes are my 4th generation of BBR OEGBs so I'm hoping that she passed on her resistance to MD in her offspring. Her sister, Hope survives but is no longer laying. So far my original vaccinated birds have have lived up to my expectations.

BTW @Florida Bullfrog. You took excellent pictures of your bird's eyes. I wish more folks would get pictures that were half as good as yours. It sure makes figuring out what's going on a lot easier.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

@Florida Bullfrog I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this. My best advice is enjoy your girls, give them lots of good food and healthy treats and let them have fun being chickens. You aren't alone when it comes to dealing with this horrible disease.

@Wyorp Rock, thank you for the tags.

If you follow along my other threads, I throw my chickens down the natural selection gauntlet and let nature cull the weak ones. My goal is to return chickens back to the free-range, self-sufficient, state they generally existed in through the late 1800s. My flock has predator resistance down very well. Looks like disease resistance is going to be the bigger challenge.

So I understand what you mean when you say to let them have fun. This pullet I culled tonight was a favorite for one of my breeding projects. But in reality what I need to do is cull anything that I’ve ever seen a sign of what is likely Marek’s, or what I call in my threads the “free-range sickness.”

I do have a large number of chickens that have grown up free-range that I think have a degree of immunity. The genetic combination that keeps coming up as hardy survivors with no signs of the disease are a combination of red junglefowl hybrid, aseel, and Liege fighter.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

For me personally, I will not vaccinate nor bring in vaccinated birds.

Thank you.

 

[coach723]

Whether to have vaccinated birds or not is really a personal, and sometimes difficult decision. I have also chosen to not vaccinate and to try to breed for resistance instead. I have the same logic stream, if they get it and the vaccine keeps them alive I fear I am breeding a more virulent strain. In the few years I've been dealing with it, I've come to recognize some particular birds in my flock that seem much more susceptible to it than others. I have one brahma hen left and pretty much every chick hatched from her, regardless of rooster, has become symptomatic (I no longer hatch from her). Lost all my GLW hens, but my old GLW rooster has never shown signs and is now going on 12. I've some birds that develop occular symptoms and have lived for years (I know the advice is to cull as soon as symptoms are seen, but it's here regardless, so I don't). I'm not exactly sure when my first actual case might have been as I suspect I have a fairly mild strain and didn't recognize it at first.
I added Egyptian Fayoumi's this year (not vaccinated) as they are supposed to be more resistant, time will tell. So far they are all fine, no signs at this point, they are now 26 weeks old. I will breed some pure and mix some with my existing non symptomatic birds for crosses, and we will see how it goes. But I also understand why some choose to vaccinate, the losses can be heartbreaking. I lost an absolutely beautiful roo with a terrific temperament this year to it, he will be hard to replace. Most of what I have left in my flock are EE's and other mixes I've hatched here, all the pure breeds are gone with the exception of the GLW roo and the Brahma hen, and now the fayoumi's. I have thought about jungle fowl also, but not sure I have enough space for them to be happy. I'm finding the fayoumi's to be more of a challenge also, as they want to roam farther than the rest and they fly better. I'm currently building a larger coop, larger run, and larger, taller fenced ranging area, so hopefully that will help. This virus just stinks. You are going along, have plans, things are great, and then WHACK, everything changes.

 

[microchick]

I do have a large number of chickens that have grown up free-range that I think have a degree of immunity. The genetic combination that keeps coming up as hardy survivors with no signs of the disease are a combination of red junglefowl hybrid, aseel, and Liege fighter.

Interesting point here. I remember reading somewhere at some point in time that the closer to 'wild' in chickens the greater the resistance to Marek's disease. For me I brought in Egyptian Fayoumis which really helped my flock. Plus the introduction of local resistant barnyard cross from local Amish flocks.

I had a particularly nasty strain of MD in my flock that presented with three forms of the disease, Neuro, Ocular and Visceral all were present in my birds and they dropped like flies. At one point I was losing two birds per week and when it was done I had lost over 3/4rds of my birds. Bringing in resistant birds is what saved my flock. Adding vaccinated birds happened as a side note when I needed companions for a lone chick who's mother rejected it. When they didn't succumb to the disease I knew I was on to something and from that point on added a few vaccinated birds (all bantams and Egyptian Fayoumis) at a time to see what the result was. Since most of my birds died within a time line of one to two years of age, the fact that they all lived and bred chicks that also didn't die or show symptoms of the disease. From my experience I fear that bringing in unvaccinated birds or birds from local flocks that are resistant would just be writing their death sentence for them.

If you consider any type of birds to add to your flock try considering Egyptian Fayoumis. Genetically resistant and excellent free rangers. They aren't cuddle bunnies but they are resistant.

 

[Certified Chicken Lover]

I suspect much of the conventional wisdom about Marek’s to be incorrect. I am convinced chickens can be bred to resist and defeat it, and chickens were likely in that state a century ago.

Vaxed chickens carry and spread it for years. Non-vaxed chickens seem to die quickly. At least if its the “free range sickness” that infects new chicks and sub adults when turned out to free range for the first time. A percentage of my naturally brooded birds seem to never get this. So I believe if I only breed those birds that never seem to get it and cull any birds that may be long term carriers, natural selection will beat Marek’s, if indeed that’s what this is.

There already are some chicken breeds that are resistant to Marks disease like Ideal 236s. I actually own some and they are very hardy birds, but they tend to be flighty.

 

[coach723]

I've also read of a particular genetic line of leghorns(I think) that are supposed to be resistant, but I've no idea where you'd find them. If I can find that article later I'll post a link.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I have already tried pure and half fayoumis, and all but one died of the free-range sickness, and none of their chicks survived. So with the likelihood that the free-range sickness is Marek’s, I’d have to say that the fayoumi genetics can’t cut it against the strain I have.

 

[coach723]

I believe this is the original article on leghorns I was remembering. Some of it's hard to decipher if you aren't a scientist/biologist, but you can skim and get the main points. It also mentions the ever mutating virus and that some strains are not affected by the vaccine because of that.
https://jasbsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40104-018-0281-x

This is an ongoing study on the genetics of resistance, not sure anything definitive has come out of it yet.
https://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/cr...tance-against-mareks-disease-in-chickens.html

Bottom line is that most science is working on breeding in resistance to genetic lines, rather than improving the vaccine. Which I think is what all of us are trying to do as amateurs.

 

[microchick]

Thanks for posting these links, @coach723.

I also had read that white leghorns are resistant.

I agree with you 100% about what science is attempting to do. Plus in the meantime breeders (no offense guys I'm talking about geneticists/breeders here) are constantly developing more specialized hybrids that will churn out more eggs at an earlier age, lay longer or meat birds that go from egg to the grocery freezers in the least number of weeks and when they do are meaty enough to be mistaken for miniature turkeys. With specialized hybridization comes higher susceptibility to Marek's.

Plus 'vaccines' are mass produced with the 'factory' egg and meat producer in mind. They need to come up with a delivery system for small back yard breeders and chicken keepers so vaccinating small flocks is easier.