Marek's. Do I cull them all???

[MamaManda]

I've just had the WSU Avian health Lab confirm suspected Marek's in my flock of 24. I've lost 3 birds in the past week, (a 12 week old, and two 14 month olds) and am pretty sure 2 more have just started becoming lethargic today. Just waiting for more to develop symptoms at this point. I also have one in ICU, that needs to be put down I'm afraid, as I think she is past the point of return.

I've done a considerable amount of research on Marek's in the last few days, and I know that it is very common in chickens, and that it is easily spread. I also know some people recommend culling the entire flock, waiting til the virus has had a chance to die off, and starting again fresh...and that others say since it's as "common as the flu is in people" that the chances of the new flock contracting it are so high that it's a better idea to keep the birds that do not exhibit symptoms or have developed a resistance, building immune systems naturally, and quarantining new birds for extended amounts of time before exposure, hoping you'll get new birds that can successfully fight the virus.

My birds are all raised for eggs, and are more like pets than anything else, since my children are all allergic to eggs, and I sell them to friends. I'm not really even sure I can go through with culling the flock, especially when some or most are not showing any symptoms. My real predicament, however, is that we have just sold our house and will be moving to 5 acres in the next month or so. If I was staying here, where we are already infested, I would most likely just keep the birds I have that are asymptomatic, and cull any that develop symptoms. BUT, since we are moving, I'm wondering if it is foolish of me to bring infested birds to new property? I am also so incredibly worn out from caring for my 4 children and all the sick birds during the past week, all of which I eventually lost, that I can't stand the thought of all of them dropping like flies, one by one. I wonder what the chances of contracting it are? Like, do MOST birds that have been exposed develop symptoms and die? Half? Or does anyone really know?

WWYD???

 

[KayTee]

Hayduke27 has a good point - from what I understand, once Marek's is on your land, your whole flock are potential carriers, even if they don't show symptoms. However, you could cull your whole flock, move to a new place, and find that Marek's is also present in your new place even before you arrive - that is just a chance you have to take. It's an awful decision to have to make, and I really feel for you MamaManda.

I think that as always, in the end it comes down to personal choice. If you want to breed, sell etc. then culling and starting again in a new place at least gives you a chance of starting from scratch and possibly avoiding Marek's. However, if you are happy to keep your girls as "pets with perks", and to operate a closed flock (accepting new, vaccinated birds, but never letting birds from your flock go elsewhere - keeping them until you cull them or they die of old age) then there is no reason why you should not keep your existing birds, and only euthanise when you can see that the disease is beyond treating in each individual.

I agree that it is absolutely heartbreaking to have to cull a bird, but if you are doing it because they are suffering then it is a lot easier, because you know that you are actually helping them rather than let them continue to suffer. To cull them if they are not showing active symptoms of illness is a much harder decision to make. Even if it is not something that I could do myself, I will never criticise anyone who chooses to do so - it is not an easy decision, and we all have our own methods of flock management and our own reasons for what we do.

At the end of the day, each one of us has a duty to our flock to be as informed as possible, look at our reasons for keeping chickens, and make the decision that will cause us the least heartbreak in the long run. No-one can make the decision for you, MamaManda - it is one of those life decisions that ultimately rests on your shoulders - but you should know that whatever you decide the BYC community will support you - that is what we are all here for, after all.

 

[Eggcessive]

The disease is in your environment, and is in the dander and dust from the chickens. It may have been there before you had chickens. I would pressure wash the kennels and cages and take them with me, toss the feeders and waterers. The chickens are all exposed to it--some may not get or may. You have a bit of a dilemma on whether to cull birds, even if they may not have the disease. I'm not sure if they are carriers of the disease if they don't have it. Any new chicks you get should get the vaccine, and not be exposed to the disease for at least 2-3 weeks after vaccination. Nambroth, a BYC member is quite an authority on Mareks after having it in her flock, and I would read her very detailed article about the disease: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

 

[Hayduke27]

I am dealing with something similar. I have a flock of 12 that are over a year old. I also have 5 hatchlings from that flock. I went out and got 12 assorted bantams from our local Tractor Supply, and just last Friday afternoon I culled one chick that was doing the splits and getting worse. Unfortunately, due to the holiday weekend, I couldn't get the chick tested. However, I am trying to figure out the proper course of action to take.

Unfortunately, I quarantined for 30 days, and just after they came out of quarantine and got to go to the yard, the chick became ill. From what I understand, once a chicken with Marek's has been exposed to any other chicken or area, those chickens and areas are contaminated. It doesn't matter whether the chickens actively show symptoms, all of your chickens are now Marek's carriers.

At this point for me, I am waiting to see if any other chicks develop symptoms so I can get them tested. I don't know for sure that I have Marek's yet, but am taking precautions as if I do.

I have read that Marek's is super common, to the point many people say it's not if you'll get it but when. I do know that many people raise flocks to be Marek's resistant. However, if you go this route you'll need to be prepared to lose a lot of chickens on the way to building up the immunity of future generations. As you know, this can be hard.

You have a difficult choice ahead of you. Because you are moving to a new place that is presumably Marek's free, I would strongly consider starting from scratch with new chickens and equipment. However, if you choose to keep your current birds, you should educate yourself as thoroughly as possible and know just how to manage a flock with Marek's. Also, keep in mind that if you choose to keep your current birds, you need to be very careful with biosecurity and not spread the disease it to others who have chickens.

 

[Kiki]

@Rubygrace I'd like to know as well, I wish folks would come back and finish threads, it would be really helpful for the rest of us.
I, too, had marek's confirmed, via dna test and symptoms. The vet wasn't able to do a necropsy because they were booked up, and it has to be done within 48 hours, and they are closed on Sunday.
Two more birds dead yesterday, one expected, a young one that had the leg issues, and one unexpected, an over a year old hen. One is in recovery, she'd gotten the leg paralysis, but now she is walking again! If a bit stiffly.
We have over 100 birds because, before I knew we had the disease, I was working on a breeding project for olive eggers. I'd sent eggs to folks for them to hatch out because in 2021 I was going to sell confirmed olive egger chicks (I was testing the crosses). One of the worst things was having to contact each person and say my flock has confirmed Mareks, it does not transmit through the egg to the chick, but if there is any dander on the egg...:/
Now I have a ton of roosters from the project I don't know what to do with. I don't want to cull them (deadify) but I also don't think anyone would want to give them a home unless they knew they had the disease as well. They live at my mom's place because she has the space, and she says I need to do something with them. I have four beautiful isbar roosters, and a lot of cute mixes. It sucks so much.
There is a disinfectant you can use to clean up coops and such, not so sure if it would kill the disease in the ground/organic matter. I can't recall the name of it right now.

It would be wrong to continue to sell eggs or birds.


Are you looking for Virkon?
https://virkon.com/en/products-applications/disinfectants/virkon-s/

 

[JennyHeidewald]

Can the ocular form of Mareks turn into a different strain? Or cause death? Or just blindness?

I'd been wondering the same thing, because mine were showing different symptoms, so I asked the lab: "Thank you for the quick results, I'm sad it is what I thought it was. I just had one question, is there a difference in the DNA results with the different strains of Mareks? Sweetpea had ocular (misshapen iris) and feather (skin lymphomas), but was still walking, Digger Baby's legs are paralyzed, but I didn't see any other signs."

The lab: It’s not a matter of strains. Individuals will react differently. Strain differentiation is a very complex genetic differentiation process. That is better left to research papers than diagnosis.

It would be easier to not love them all! I can’t bear to see them die. People will say their “just chickens”, I guess they’ve never spent time with one sitting in their lap or a whole flock following them like puppies!

I feel ya. It is the worst, that and when I can't help them.
Some people will never understand, how many would say "it was just a dog/cat" but I can see how it would be, I didn't really think much about chickens until I had my own personal ones, and then you see their personalities, the lap chicken, or the one that likes to cuddle... or the one that thinks your head is The Place To Be, the one that will come over and peck you in the butt when you have squatted down to pet others, then runs off when you turn around to try and pet her, the one that is always underfoot, though I don't know how she can see anything with her crest. I have favorites, and I have favorite favorites, and also I have favorite favorite favorites.
I have to face the fact that I'm likely to have my heart broken about 109 more times. I think that is how large the flock is, I get the feeling I miscounted, it only seems like maybe 50 chickens...
But, better to have loved and lost, than to never have had chickens at all. ( so I tell myself when I am crying over another one)

 

[FluffyBottomBantams]

Call me crazy, or a softie, but if my flock had mareks I do not think I would cull the flock. I’d just deal with it case by case. Some birds can go their whole lives and not be affected by it and just be carriers. (Which means no eggs or birds sold, and being very conscious about where you could be spreading it) and as I bring in chicks, I’d vaccinate them. Best wishes to y’all and your flocks

 

[MamaManda]

Boy! That's a tough decision! Can you get each bird tested and move them to a separate pen if they aren't infected?
TC

Well, here's my thing - Let's say I have all the birds tested, (which I'm guessing will be expensive for 20+ birds) and some don't have it, and I then choose to move them to my new house...
What about the feeders and watering containers I have in their coops? Do I have to throw them out and get new ones? What about the cages and kennels I have used in my attempts to nurse sick birds back to health? Toss them? What about the shoes that my 4 children have worn in and out of the coops, and all around the yard...won't they bring the virus to my new house, unless I throw away and repurchase every pair of shoes they own? Will I really be able to remember and destroy/disinfect everything a sick bird may have come in contact with? Can I really get rid of every trace of the virus? I'd hate to cull all my beloved birds, only to take the virus with me and reinfect a new flock.

 

[KayTee]

Eggcessive is right - Nambroth has shared all her knowledge and experience in her article - if you want to know more about Marek's in an easy-to-read format which doesn't talk down to you then Nambroth has got it spot on!

 

[JennyHeidewald]

@Rubygrace I'd like to know as well, I wish folks would come back and finish threads, it would be really helpful for the rest of us.
I, too, had marek's confirmed, via dna test and symptoms. The vet wasn't able to do a necropsy because they were booked up, and it has to be done within 48 hours, and they are closed on Sunday.
Two more birds dead yesterday, one expected, a young one that had the leg issues, and one unexpected, an over a year old hen. One is in recovery, she'd gotten the leg paralysis, but now she is walking again! If a bit stiffly.
We have over 100 birds because, before I knew we had the disease, I was working on a breeding project for olive eggers. I'd sent eggs to folks for them to hatch out because in 2021 I was going to sell confirmed olive egger chicks (I was testing the crosses). One of the worst things was having to contact each person and say my flock has confirmed Mareks, it does not transmit through the egg to the chick, but if there is any dander on the egg...:/
Now I have a ton of roosters from the project I don't know what to do with. I don't want to cull them (deadify) but I also don't think anyone would want to give them a home unless they knew they had the disease as well. They live at my mom's place because she has the space, and she says I need to do something with them. I have four beautiful isbar roosters, and a lot of cute mixes. It sucks so much.
There is a disinfectant you can use to clean up coops and such, not so sure if it would kill the disease in the ground/organic matter. I can't recall the name of it right now.