Marek's. Do I cull them all???

[Grace2020]

@Kiki Yes, that looks like the one, thanks!
I'll probably just figure out where to put a bachelor roo pen, since there are way too many roos for the hens. Maybe ask my BIL to harvest them. Maybe let them free range.

@Grace2020 Thank you and I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did, too. It is so hard, I wish the vet didn't charge an arm and a leg for euthanasia, or that there was a better way than cervical dislocation.

I think one of the biggest issues is that Marek's comes out in times of stress, they might be a bit stressed because there are quite a few of them, though the areas are quite big. We've stopped letting them free range because a dang coyote came in and got two of our favorite favorite hens (why can't they nab a rooster? Sheesh).
Our little Newt is a fighter, I know she will be a carrier, but I figure they all have it. I am not optimistic about the place ever being Marek's free.

It's mentally exhausting, once the flock gets to a smaller size that is where it will stay. So many birds, love them all, but it has been one issue after another, and, since I don't live there with them any more, I can't tend to them as well as I used to.

Why couldn't I have liked a cat or a dog...something that doesn't die so much. I don't care if they stop laying eggs, or as many eggs when they get older, I'd love a bird to get past three years.

It would be easier to not love them all! I can’t bear to see them die. People will say their “just chickens”, I guess they’ve never spent time with one sitting in their lap or a whole flock following them like puppies!

@Kiki Yes, that looks like the one, thanks!
I'll probably just figure out where to put a bachelor roo pen, since there are way too many roos for the hens. Maybe ask my BIL to harvest them. Maybe let them free range.

@Grace2020 Thank you and I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did, too. It is so hard, I wish the vet didn't charge an arm and a leg for euthanasia, or that there was a better way than cervical dislocation.

I think one of the biggest issues is that Marek's comes out in times of stress, they might be a bit stressed because there are quite a few of them, though the areas are quite big. We've stopped letting them free range because a dang coyote came in and got two of our favorite favorite hens (why can't they nab a rooster? Sheesh).
Our little Newt is a fighter, I know she will be a carrier, but I figure they all have it. I am not optimistic about the place ever being Marek's free.

It's mentally exhausting, once the flock gets to a smaller size that is where it will stay. So many birds, love them all, but it has been one issue after another, and, since I don't live there with them any more, I can't tend to them as well as I used to.

Why couldn't I have liked a cat or a dog...something that doesn't die so much. I don't care if they stop laying eggs, or as many eggs when they get older, I'd love a bird to get past three years.

 

[Myrshine]

Can the ocular form of Mareks turn into a different strain? Or cause death? Or just blindness?

 

[Grace2020]

Yes, enjoy the “gift” for as long as you have it. It’s funny how many different opinions are shared by the vets and labs. My lab told me that there are different strains and some are more virulent than others-each causing the different symptoms. I guess it’s just a wait and see. I never imagined there was a disease out there like this. Can anyone keep chickens without losing them to this? My mom has chickens and several of my friends do as well. None of them have ever seen Marek’s. I don’t get it. My first flock....I lose them all to it????

I'd been wondering the same thing, because mine were showing different symptoms, so I asked the lab: "Thank you for the quick results, I'm sad it is what I thought it was. I just had one question, is there a difference in the DNA results with the different strains of Mareks? Sweetpea had ocular (misshapen iris) and feather (skin lymphomas), but was still walking, Digger Baby's legs are paralyzed, but I didn't see any other signs."

The lab: It’s not a matter of strains. Individuals will react differently. Strain differentiation is a very complex genetic differentiation process. That is better left to research papers than diagnosis.




I feel ya. It is the worst, that and when I can't help them.
Some people will never understand, how many would say "it was just a dog/cat" but I can see how it would be, I didn't really think much about chickens until I had my own personal ones, and then you see their personalities, the lap chicken, or the one that likes to cuddle... or the one that thinks your head is The Place To Be, the one that will come over and peck you in the butt when you have squatted down to pet others, then runs off when you turn around to try and pet her, the one that is always underfoot, though I don't know how she can see anything with her crest. I have favorites, and I have favorite favorites, and also I have favorite favorite favorites.
I have to face the fact that I'm likely to have my heart broken about 109 more times. I think that is how large the flock is, I get the feeling I miscounted, it only seems like maybe 50 chickens...
But, better to have loved and lost, than to never have had chickens at all. ( so I tell myself when I am crying over another one)

 

[Modern Doolittle]

Well, here's my thing - Let's say I have all the birds tested, (which I'm guessing will be expensive for 20+ birds) and some don't have it, and I then choose to move them to my new house...
What about the feeders and watering containers I have in their coops? Do I have to throw them out and get new ones? What about the cages and kennels I have used in my attempts to nurse sick birds back to health? Toss them? What about the shoes that my 4 children have worn in and out of the coops, and all around the yard...won't they bring the virus to my new house, unless I throw away and repurchase every pair of shoes they own? Will I really be able to remember and destroy/disinfect everything a sick bird may have come in contact with? Can I really get rid of every trace of the virus? I'd hate to cull all my beloved birds, only to take the virus with me and reinfect a new flock.

H

Hayduke27 has a good point - from what I understand, once Marek's is on your land, your whole flock are potential carriers, even if they don't show symptoms. However, you could cull your whole flock, move to a new place, and find that Marek's is also present in your new place even before you arrive - that is just a chance you have to take. It's an awful decision to have to make, and I really feel for you MamaManda.

I think that as always, in the end it comes down to personal choice. If you want to breed, sell etc. then culling and starting again in a new place at least gives you a chance of starting from scratch and possibly avoiding Marek's. However, if you are happy to keep your girls as "pets with perks", and to operate a closed flock (accepting new, vaccinated birds, but never letting birds from your flock go elsewhere - keeping them until you cull them or they die of old age) then there is no reason why you should not keep your existing birds, and only euthanise when you can see that the disease is beyond treating in each individual.

I agree that it is absolutely heartbreaking to have to cull a bird, but if you are doing it because they are suffering then it is a lot easier, because you know that you are actually helping them rather than let them continue to suffer. To cull them if they are not showing active symptoms of illness is a much harder decision to make. Even if it is not something that I could do myself, I will never criticise anyone who chooses to do so - it is not an easy decision, and we all have our own methods of flock management and our own reasons for what we do.

At the end of the day, each one of us has a duty to our flock to be as informed as possible, look at our reasons for keeping chickens, and make the decision that will cause us the least heartbreak in the long run. No-one can make the decision for you, MamaManda - it is one of those life decisions that ultimately rests on your shoulders - but you should know that whatever you decide the BYC community will support you - that is what we are all here for, after all.

I'm dealing with the same problem unfortunately.... it's definitely heartbreaking, I just had two, six week old chicks die and it broke my heart watching the disease run it's course. We also had them in ICU and for two days they looked like they made an amazing recovery back to complete normal health just to wake up the third day to them dead.... We just stripped are entire coop an washed EVERYTHING with bleach water and apple cider vinegar. All new bedding too. My flock has been ravaged by Marek's over the past year. Id say we had in the vicinity of 25 birds die in a year! An they all supposedly came vaccinated! Luckily are ducks haven't been affected.....yet! It's a horrible disease that I pray they come up with better solutions for. I'm all ears to any advice and I'm sorry for anyone dealing with this horrible disease!