Mareks in my flock?

[seminolewind]

Quote: Some will get it and some won't and I don't know why. Probably something to do with genetics or how fast the develop antibodies. Marek's just does whatever the heck it wants. It's easy to be in denial (me too) when an illness has some of the same symptoms as other ailments. I had a chick with a broken leg. Then I had 2 more. They weren't broken. I knew then what it was.

Yes, check with your state animal disease lab. Mine in Florida charges $50 for everything. Your vet will probably not be able to diagnose it without a lab.

 

[seminolewind]

At the bottom of my posts there's a link to Nambroth's Big Marek's FAQ. It's well worth reading and covers everything.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Just want to say that any chicken with a Marek's exposure can have immune suppression. They usually do. Which means that the most common of bacteria or cocci or fungus that is usually in a bird can multiply like crazy and kill them or be present with Marek's when Marek's tumors kills them.

 

[microchick]

Thank you, Seminolewind. I have plowed through most of Nambroth's excellent and informative thread. In fact for the last 2 weeks I've been reading everything I can find about this horrible disease. And being "sick of it" is an understatement.

I made an observation yesterday that I have another Rooster that is probably on the downhill slide. Primo is just over a year old and has been Alpha for about 5 months now. He is a BO/Welsummer cross and just a beautiful, big boy. I noticed yesterday that suddenly, his brother Tres has usurped him as Alpha and is looking bigger than Primo. Red Alert! Red Alert! I went into the coop when everyone was roosting and quieting down for the night and picked up Primo. He is definitely lighter than he was even last month when I picked him up and he felt like a concrete block. Symptoms brought on via breeding stress? Unfortunately I think so. He's bright eyed and alert at this point and still covering hens but time will tell.

I do find myself in agreement with you about the diligent use of wormers and antibiotics. The eggs my hens lay are used by us and any surplus are given away to our friends and neighbors so I just pull eggs for 5 days after treatment and feed them to the dogs or we use them. I'm using Terramycin right now if anybody sneezes more often than normal. What are you using on your flock? And I'm getting ready to run Corid through them for the first time this year trying to rotate worming meds as much as possible.

That's 3 that are underweight and three with ocular symptoms. My husband asked me if we should put them down and I'm just so on the fence with doing that until they are really declining more than they are now. The ones with ocular symptoms are doing fine with good appetites. The two hens are laying regularly and the rooster is holding his weight and very lively. It's like putting a lock on the barn door after the horse has been stolen. The genie is out of the bottle and everyone is exposed at this point.

My good news is that I have a nice bunch of hens that are completely asymptomatic and over two years old so I'm hoping they have had a chance to develop some some antibodies and are resistant. But it looks like the ones that I have flagged may not be so lucky.

 

[microchick]

I was able to get a few quick pictures of two of my hen's eyes this afternoon. Hoping to get out tonight and get a look at the interior.

This is Aggie's 'good' left eye. She is almost 2 years and 2 months old and was on the nest laying when I snapped this pic of her. Her eyes have been like this for quite a while now. Good weight and appetite. Lays regularly.

DH did a little photo shopping to bring out the pupil shape. Her right eye is the same only a pin point pupil.

This is the eye that when I saw it two weeks ago caused me to utter 'oh.....crap' this is Taffy. She is a little over 9 months of age. I noticed that she too had a pin point pupil and was starting to think she was an Aggie daughter and there was a genetic glitch in their eyes until two weeks ago when I saw this.


So far Taffy is the only one of the three with the miotic pupil who's eye has changed color. I didn't get a picture of her left eye but it appears normal with bright gold iris and pupil reactive to light.

You couldn't ask for better natured hens than these two are. Aggie has raised two broods of chicks, Taffy being one of them. I'm trying to remember but can't say if she (Aggie) had abnormal pupils during her second brood of chicks. I have a picture of her on her first nest of eggs when she was 10 months old and the right eye which is now miotic, was completely normal.

Yeah, a necropsy will probably confirm what these eyes are telling me, but these eyes don't lie.

This is the same eye at a different angle that really shows the color change that is happening.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I was able to get a few quick pictures of two of my hen's eyes this afternoon. Hoping to get out tonight and get a look at the interior.

This is Aggie's 'good' left eye. She is almost 2 years and 2 months old and was on the nest laying when I snapped this pic of her. Her eyes have been like this for quite a while now. Good weight and appetite. Lays regularly.

DH did a little photo shopping to bring out the pupil shape. Her right eye is the same only a pin point pupil.

This is the eye that when I saw it two weeks ago caused me to utter 'oh.....crap' this is Taffy. She is a little over 9 months of age. I noticed that she too had a pin point pupil and was starting to think she was an Aggie daughter and there was a genetic glitch in their eyes until two weeks ago when I saw this.


So far Taffy is the only one of the three with the miotic pupil who's eye has changed color. I didn't get a picture of her left eye but it appears normal with bright gold iris and pupil reactive to light.

You couldn't ask for better natured hens than these two are. Aggie has raised two broods of chicks, Taffy being one of them. I'm trying to remember but can't say if she (Aggie) had abnormal pupils during her second brood of chicks. I have a picture of her on her first nest of eggs when she was 10 months old and the right eye which is now miotic, was completely normal.

Yeah, a necropsy will probably confirm what these eyes are telling me, but these eyes don't lie.

This is the same eye at a different angle that really shows the color change that is happening.

Thank you for sharing these - this is exactly what Jenny's eyes looked like at first, one looked like a keyhole - I failed to get great photos early, though. Right now her "good" eye looks like these, and the other eye is actually enlarged, bulging and dark. But she keeps plugging along, month after month, now >2 years old, and she outlays her coop mate.

She is in a low stress coop with a very sweet and solicitous rooster and one other hen - she can see we'll enough to be the first to grab a grub from my hand (she's always been a piggie), and has a happy life in their small coop and enclosure.






(I can't find the photos of the other eye.)

 

[microchick]

Fire Ant Farm I'm so sorry, but relieved that somebody understands. Taffy and Aggie both seem to see well as does my one rooster with a myotic pupil. Aggie's are by far the worse. She mainly hangs out in the coop with a few other hens and a young rooster who adores the 'coop girls' I imagine she stays inside because the bright light hurts her eyes. I thought about moving her and Taff maybe putting Rocky the rooster with a bad eye by themselves but I think that would cause them more stress than good at this time.

I've been reading posts about using herbs to boost their immune systems. I'm into herbology. What is recommended? I grow a lot of herbs and can always grow more. Crushed garlic in the water. Okay, how much how often? What about Rosemary? Fresh or dried? How much and how offered? Would they eat it readily if it was chopped and put in a wet mash?

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Sorry guys I was going to try to respond but been so much activity I couldn't keep up. Glad this post is helping others as well! This disease is hard to cope with

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Fire Ant Farm I'm so sorry, but relieved that somebody understands. Taffy and Aggie both seem to see well as does my one rooster with a myotic pupil. Aggie's are by far the worse. She mainly hangs out in the coop with a few other hens and a young rooster who adores the 'coop girls' I imagine she stays inside because the bright light hurts her eyes. I thought about moving her and Taff maybe putting Rocky the rooster with a bad eye by themselves but I think that would cause them more stress than good at this time.

I've been reading posts about using herbs to boost their immune systems. I'm into herbology. What is recommended? I grow a lot of herbs and can always grow more. Crushed garlic in the water. Okay, how much how often? What about Rosemary? Fresh or dried? How much and how offered? Would they eat it readily if it was chopped and put in a wet mash?

FWIW, every time Jenny's eyes would get incrementally worse, she would act reserved and not do much (and I would think, "Here we go."), and then she'd be fine after a few days. I am just guessing, but I believe that it was the result of her acclimating to the decreased vision, getting used to it, or whatever. She goes to roost SUPER early (while she can still see), and her sister follows soon after. The rooster usually goes in with them, but comes in and out just to make sure to guard, etc. All three are well tucked in before sundown when it's still pretty light. They also start the morning later. I have no idea what her future holds, but have been happy to see her adapt. She's the only affected bird I have - knock on wood, but every else has been fine so far. As we've said and as I'm sure you know from your reading, it's nearly impossible to control because it spreads so easily in the environment. Me keeping her like this (vs. putting her down) is after I got advice form the Texas poultry pathologist on the matter - that putting her down would be futile, because by the time one detects the disease in the flock, everyone has been exposed and it's all over the property. They will get it or they won't. If they don't, then super, and if I then keep their offspring, even better. (Not sure why someone was saying breeding for resistance is "a joke", but I don't particularly want to argue about it.)

Here's when Jenny had her first "acting sick" phase - she was not underweight at all, but just sat on the floor of the coop a lot. Took me a while to figure out that she had lost vision (and to then realize it was ocular Mareks). Dumbledore the rooster (then cockerel), who had only just recently been introduced to them, sat right next to her all the time to keep her company, rarely leaving her side and tidbitted for her showed her the water, and made sure she got to her roost. He is truly precious. (I worry for him whenever she goes. He's very attached to her.)




(Sorry - can't help you with the herbs, but someone else might.)

- Ant Farm

 

[microchick]

And it's getting harder. My husband just examined my three birds with pinpoint pupils and gray eye with his slit lamp. He said what he saw in their eye is the same as what he saw in human patients with herpes infections. The youngest bird's eyes are the worse (the one with the gray eye) and along with the gray eye she also has a secondary cataract in what by all outward observation is her good eye. The diagnosis is Iridocyclitis caused by Herpes. That pretty well cinches the diagnosis of Mareks in those three birds. The condition in their eyes is painful to them. I remember seeing human patients with iridocyclits and the first thing they said was it was VERY painful. What DH saw in their eyes is called posterior synechiae. The definition is:

A synechia is an eye condition where the iris adheres to either the cornea (i.e. anterior synechia) or lens (i.e.posterior synechia). Synechiae can be caused by ocular trauma, iritis or iridocyclitis and may lead to certain types of glaucoma.

The one year old rooster's is the lesser in severity.

My plan is to keep an eye on them, no pun intended, and recheck their eyes periodically. When they worsen, or they are in obvious distress I will put them down. He speculates that they have possibly 20% vision in their affected eyes. We are also going to do a random check on birds with no obvious abnormalities in their eyes to see if there is a low grade inflammation going on.

I have to say these 3 were perfect patients. We've had 8 year old humans who wouldn't hold as still as two little hens and a rambunctious rooster did. DH said he had 40 year old patients that didn't hold that still.

Teehee. I think I said about the resistant breeding being a bit of a joke. Not really a funny joke and not meaning to ruffle feathers. The doctor I talked to said that usually by the time owners figured out who was resistant,they were no longer fertile. Implying that it is well, a bit of a joke. I really hope it isn't futile, but one article I read last night said that to breed for resistance you needed at least 50 birds, be able to keep who bred who with what results straight and be willing to heavily cull both old and young birds who do not exhibit the health traits that you are trying to breed into the birds. That puts a damper on most back yard chicken enthusiasts who think of their birds as being as much pets as their family dog or cat. And frankly, it kills me every time I have to put one of my birds down. I don't think I have the heart to do what they suggested needed to be done to truly breed resistant birds. Sorry. Don't mean to sound morbid. Not much fun hearing that your suspicions are spot on.