Mareks: Long-term prognosis

[seminolewind]

I disagree with the hatcheries....they are not looking at new data. I know for a fact, through necropsy, that my birds have Marek's. I have no idea where it came from. No chickens have ever been in this yard....

The state lab didn't even flinch when they gave me the diagnosis...not, wow, this is rare! On the contrary, she seemed as if it were just another in a long line....

It's out there and it's real.

I guess you already know how important a flock history is. I do not doubt that the lab didn't flinch. Sad thing.
leadwolf1, have any of your flock birds had exposure to any chicken other than day old hatchery chicks or hatched eggs by you? It only takes one, as I learned, the only one I bought as a pullet.
Even a chick from a feed store may have been exposed. Vaccinated or not, if exposed, they can infect others, and the exposed chick not die from the side effects, just carry the disease.

 

[seminolewind]

Don't be so sure there is no side affect from vaccinating. I vaccinated a perfectly helathly 1 year old barred rock and that was the last day she laid an egg. She is still with me, sitll healthy, but up until the vaccine she had been laying an egg every day all winter long. Coincidence? who knows.

I have hatched out birds with broodies and have had them remain healthy, I have had hatchery vaccinated chicks die as they get older. I don't know that it is all Marek's without some extensive tests. The hatcheries are still telling us that it is rare in backyards flocks and yet I see posts on BYC almost daily where someone is suspecting Marek's. I know that lympohid leukosis has the same symptoms and usually affects older birds. I think it is possible that there is more than one insidious disease at work here.

It does certainly seem like this disease is hit and miss. It may have something to do with if the eggs you hatch from other places were laid by hens that had exposure , and they do pass on some immunity to chicks. Sadly,, I must have gotten 10 eggs last year from hens that never had exposure and they all died. Meanwhile, I've had eggs from other people, the birds had no problems and I still have them, so it may be that those eggs were laid by exposed hens, and carry some immunity.
It's something that there is no test for, it would be difficult to trace. But my own hatched chicks from my hens had no problem, well, they were eggs laid by exposed hens.

I think hatcheries are clueless about backyard chickens and how bad it's gotten with Marek's. They have it under control with their methods, and we do not have it under control because we have no methods that we all practice.

 

[centrarchid]

Mareks is like most if not all virus caused diseases. The virus comes in multiple strains and is always evolving. In response the makers of vaccines for Mareks need to have more than one strain of vaccine. Problem number 1 is that not all vaccine strains promote immunity to all strains of Mareks virus, vaccination is not a guarantee your flock will not be impacted. Problem number 2 is that vaccination works great with hatchery sourced stock where biosecurity measures can reduce likelihood of Mareks coming in but with those of us with free range flocks we do not always have optimal level of biosecurity targeted by indoor producers. Problem 3 is yes, vaccinated birds can still be carriers but not be affected enough to impact production. Such birds coming into contact with unvaccinated birds can be a problem for latter group.

My games which we have had for literally a hundred bird generations have never been treated / vaccinated for Mareks and they have always been kept outside with a good many reared free ranged through adulthood. Losses where almost certainly incurred from Mareks but never to point where a flock was wiped out. In sustainable free-range rearing system, some losses are to be expected and tolerated. Survivors which still repressent majority are simply tough enough to persist and usually thrive.

 

[centrarchid]

Update on Speach and another infected bird. Pullet actually came down with condition prior to Speach. She is also regaining mobility. Speach actually roosted on elevated location last night so flight is being restored.

 

[leadwolf1]

I have been trying to figure out the origin for months. Here is what I know. The end of last April, I purchased my first chicks in 40 years. I was gifted them as a Mother's Day gift from my husband and kids. I had waited so long to get some more! My whole childhood, through college, I had bantam chickens. Just backyard mutts but I loved them. I got 4 NNs, 2 golden lace bantam cochins, 2 red frizzles and 2 buff laced polish...all from the local feedstore, all from Privett Hatcheries. I went back and got 3 more NNs, 2 more polish and 1 more golen laced cochin. Those, were for my daughter. In the meantime, I went looking for SQ silkies. I found a breeder not more than 15 minutes from my house. I picked up 5 silkies from her. Fast forward 8 weeks. My coop was finished. I put them in it and all seemed wonderful. They loved the room. Then, on day 3, I noticed one of the silkies limping....3 days later, she died. 1 leg forward, 1 leg back. I posted on here. All said it was probably a head trauma. Now, I know differently.

Until I knew better, I purchased other silkies and more vaccinated chicks. I flew to NY and picked up a barred NN roo. Fast forward again about 14 weeks. A NN pullet got sick. 2 days later, she died. I sent her in for necropsy. The results, atypical Marek's or LL. Since then, I have lost all but one of the original silkies plus many more. Some vaccinated, most weren't. Now, they all are.

I contacted the original silkie breeder. She has never had any problems and I'm convinced that she is telling the truth. At least, I have to believe her since she is still selling eggs, chicks and older chickens. The only Silkie left is from an egg she hatched from a breeder that I have since found out has had problems with Marek's. Could be that natural immunity shining through.

At first, I thought it was the roo I flew to NY for...but, on hindsite, I realized that the problem existed weeks before he was brought in. So, I'm back to square one.

I guess you already know how important a flock history is. I do not doubt that the lab didn't flinch. Sad thing.
leadwolf1, have any of your flock birds had exposure to any chicken other than day old hatchery chicks or hatched eggs by you? It only takes one, as I learned, the only one I bought as a pullet.
Even a chick from a feed store may have been exposed. Vaccinated or not, if exposed, they can infect others, and the exposed chick not die from the side effects, just carry the disease.

 

[leadwolf1]

I hope your little roo continues to improve. I had a black silkie that made it back to 'normal'. Then, she got a chill...she went downhill rapidly and died. Marek's can go into remission and most do not stay that way...plus, as the bird improves, the virus multiplies and produces the tumors that ultimately kills them. Some do survive. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that your little roo is one of them! We need some successes!

Update on Speach and another infected bird. Pullet actually came down with condition prior to Speach. She is also regaining mobility. Speach actually roosted on elevated location last night so flight is being restored.

 

[seminolewind]

Update on Speach and another infected bird. Pullet actually came down with condition prior to Speach. She is also regaining mobility. Speach actually roosted on elevated location last night so flight is being restored.

I hope they get better! Centrarchid, I respect the information and thoughts and experiences you've had. We may not agree on everything, but I DO listen and learn from what you say. You make some good points, and it's so hard, knowing so little about Marek's.

Just think, if we saw everything the same, we would never learn anything. This is a real good discussion!

 

[centrarchid]

leadwolf1,

Source of your young bird could still have Mareks. Birds simply do not become symptomatic and fail until stressed. Being moved to another location can be the stressor causing the bird to come down with condition.

 

[centrarchid]

Some of my birds came down with Mareks like signs last year and year before. All recovered and a couple were around until consumed last fall. Tumors may or may not have been present. I will be looking next time.

 

[leadwolf1]

I agree, stress is the number one factor. However, the silkies I purchased at a week old and the original loss was weeks before I picked up the roo from NY. So, I don't believe he is the root cause. I'm starting to wonder if someone carried Marek's into the feed store and infected the babies....