Mareks, showing poultry and safety precautions

[sumi]

I read an interesting debate elsewhere yesterday about a poultry breeder who is battling Mareks in his flock, but announced his intention to continue showing his birds in the foreseeable future, regardless of the situation. I have not experienced Mareks and pray I never will, but I have read enough about it to know that is a serious condition and can easily be spread around via the infected birds' dander. Apparently this breeder had been told that "Mareks is everywhere" and it's o.k. for him to take his birds from his farm to a show and it will not risk exposing the other exhibitors' birds.

Now, the debate is: if someone currently, or recently dealed with Mareks on their farm, is it o.k. for them to take birds to a poultry show, where judges will handle their and other exhibitors' birds? Where the birds will be in close proximity to other exhibitors' birds?

I've heard completely contrasting answers to the above questions and I'm curious to hear what you all think.

 

[speckledhen]

This is what I call "throwing caution to the wind", or in this case, Marek's to the wind. He is completely unethical. His actions are unconscionable. Since Marek's is spread through feather dander and on the air, he is risking EVERYONE's Marek's-negative birds. He has birds "dropping like flies", as someone mentioned on FB, and is going to take birds from those flocks to shows??????? ACK! Let's ask the other exhibitors what they think about that, then. Let's put a scarlet "M" on his cages for a warning, then, and see what happens. He won't be advertising it at the show, now will he? I'm betting the other exhibitors won't be so relaxed and "whatev..." about it will they?

The virus may be ubiquitous, but not every flock has Marek's. He's being selfish and immature. This is not what an ethical person does.

This is what I am always afraid of when someone spouts off that 90% of all flocks in this country have Mycoplasmosis. I do not believe it and even if it was true, it is not an excuse to just open the flood gates and forget reasonable biosecurity. No bird of mine who has ever been tested has ever tested positive for it and if he went on the same premise with that as he is with Marek's and brought an MG positive bird to a show and infected mine, he is to my way of thinking, criminal.

You asked for it, you have it. I feel strongly about it and I feel strongly about treating others the way YOU want to be treated.
This is what he gets from me:

How about contacting the show judges to alert them to this since there is not an on-the-spot test for Marek's Disease? Maybe a little bird should spread that.

 

[dawg53]

I agree with Speckledhen and Chooks4Life. What has happened to one of the most important aspects of chicken keeping? It's called BIOSECURITY. Watch the news about the ebola cases....that simple.

 

[chooks4life]

I read an interesting debate elsewhere yesterday about a poultry breeder who is battling Mareks in his flock, but announced his intention to continue showing his birds in the foreseeable future, regardless of the situation. I have not experienced Mareks and pray I never will, but I have read enough about it to know that is a serious condition and can easily be spread around via the infected birds' dander. Apparently this breeder had been told that "Mareks is everywhere" and it's o.k. for him to take his birds from his farm to a show and it will not risk exposing the other exhibitors' birds.

I'd like to hear the rationale behind that one. If it's spread via dander how is he NOT risking exposing the other birds? A low risk is still a risk.

Now, the debate is: if someone currently, or recently dealed with Mareks on their farm, is it o.k. for them to take birds to a poultry show, where judges will handle their and other exhibitors' birds? Where the birds will be in close proximity to other exhibitors' birds?

I wouldn't do it. I've got MDV in my flock. It doesn't give me grief, but I'm very cautious about not bringing it to other people's flocks.

Same as I am with goats, sheep, horses, cattle, cats, dogs, you name it --- if you have animals of the same species as someone, both parties need to be conscious of how they interact for the safety of the animals.

I had MDV brought to my flock via a lady who visited my family; she bred show-quality Silkies for over a decade with no problems, but then bought MD infected chicks from a breeder; subsequently she lost almost all her birds to it, all of her breeders, and ended up with a bunch of my mongrels instead, since they didn't die from it. I've lost the odd few over the years but nothing like the massacre that happened at her place.

X2 on what speckledhen said... It's unethical for people to deliberately expose other birds to their sick ones.

Best wishes.

 

[Miss Lydia]

I don't even go to poultry shows because of things like you all are talking about here. Just not worth the risk to me.

 

[Nambroth]

The virus may be ubiquitous, but not every flock has Marek's. He's being selfish and immature. This is not what an ethical person does.

I agree.
To knowingly have diseased birds and bring them to a show is irresponsible and selfish. Even with common diseases-- they may be common, but they are not everywhere. To knowingly take part in spreading it (especially a disease that spreads so easily on dust particles too small to see) is not acceptable. If his birds are dying in any number, as is mentioned above, it is active in his flock, and further it may be of a strain of higher virulence than what any given bird may have been exposed to previously in life.

His birds are a risk to any that are not exposed, or to any that have been exposed but have not built immunity to the specific strain his flock has. That is scientific fact.

 

[seminolewind]

Seems to me that the only action there is is to protect your own birds first and foremost. Vaccinate day olds. Shows or any get together should insist on proof of Marek's vaccination at a day old. Just as they do or should show proof of NPIP -negative. Reality is there is nothing to protect birds from getting Marek's and passing or shedding it. Even if they are not symptomatic or vaccinated, they will still carry and expose others to the virus. That's the reality. And we are not far enough along to safely show birds that have no exposure whatsoever. Vaccinated birds can shed the virus if exposed.

Protect your own. Require every participant to show proof of vaccination at a day old. All show participants will be exposed at some point, expose their flock, and have many deaths. Birds do not have to be symptomatic to shed virus. Birds can shed the virus even if vaccinated.

Commercial growers have had to rely on this for over 30 years. Their losses went from 60-80% down to 1% with vaccination, disinfecting, and all in all out (not continuing to add chickens to an establish flock other than hatching eggs or day olds vaccinated preferably from a hatchery where they've had no contact with an adult chicken) They go from incubator to being checked, sexed, and packaged for export. Hatched chicks do not carry the virus from the mother, and the outer shell can not support Marek's due to the temp of incubation and humidity (so far).

Morally, I and others feel that we should not knowingly be bringing exposed chickens to a show. I would hate to find out that I caused another the heartache I have.

 

[Suzie]

I know the loss, too. Last fall, I lost two cockerels, one pullet, and one hen to the disease. The hen was my favorite bird, a 1 year old bantam pullet named Pip. I hand fed her for a month before she finally died--I tried all sorts of natural "cures" like St. Johns Wort, turmeric, and eventually colloidal silver, but nothing worked. I felt terrible... I can only imagine how people like Seminolewind, who have been dealing with this for years, feel.

Since then, I've decided to cull birds showing Marek's symptoms as soon as I notice that they're sick. No more nursing sick birds that were probably weak in the beginning.

Consequently, I do realize how terrible the Marek's virus is, and I realize that shows may lead to exposure and possible infection of non-resistant birds. But I don't want a disease to govern my life. If everyone acted that way with human diseases, then the world would be a lot different. I think the best thing poultry owners can do is vaccinate their chickens(or breed for resistance), encourage other people to vaccinate their flocks as well, practice at least some biosecurity, and enjoy their birds.

I will not take any obviously sick birds to a show--that would be wrong. All birds that I take to shows appear healthy and have not been in contact with recently sick birds. Also, I do practice bio-security measures, to a certain extent. I keep my chicks separate from older birds until they are at least 8 weeks old, always quarantine new birds, stay away from other poultry owners' chicks, and wear different clothes when I am on other poultry owners' property. I also make use of a disinfecting footbath, although that, admittedly, does not kill the Marek's virus. True, I could do more, and after being part of this thread, I think I will.

I really did not mean to start an argument or criticize other member's opinions. I have a great respect for all of your ideas and experience, and strive to serve the BYC community as well as you do.

And that is all I'm going to say...

I personally have a compromised immune system...and I ask anyone that knows me not to come and visit if they have an infection, cough, cold etc..

I have spent time in Hospital as a result of "friends" visiting me and giving me infections...which can be life threatening...it also results in my treatment for my RA being stopped and the resulting pain and deterioration in my health and ability to carry on what I consider to be my right to a normal life is compromised...all I ask is that people consider their actions upon others and their charges.

 

[Nambroth]

It's easy to give a bird a shot, watch it miraculously "recover" and because that particular bird is no longer exhibiting symptoms, fool yourself into thinking you have cured the problem. In the short term, (and certainly for saving that individual), treatment is the way to go. But for the long term, and for the overall health of your flock, natural immunity is best.

You don't give a bird with Marek's a shot. The Marek's vaccine is administered to day-old chicks. It introduces their immune system to the virus while the chicks are still developing their immune systems, and gives the bird a boost in being able to build immunity. It's not medicine.

Quote: True. It would be strange even for someone that didn't know what they were seeing to show a bird with active symptoms of any obvious disease. I wouldn't expect to see it-- breeders and people that show want to show birds that look their best.
That being said, if someone is having an active problem with Marek's in their flock, even if they have been separated for a while, it would be especially irresponsible to show any members of the flock (unless housed on different properties for those months). From my understanding, the virus is most heavily shed during the 'incubation' and active symptoms phase. A bird could easily spread it at a show in these circumstances.

Anyhow, I am not trying to butt heads with you. I understand and agree that the multitudes of possible chicken diseases should not control our lives utterly! I am just trying to say that there is a difference between general risk, and the guarantee of spread (by guarantee of spread, I mean showing a bird from a flock that where one or more bird-- even the ones not being shown-- actively demonstrate symptoms of an airborne communicable disease).

 

[Nambroth]

Since Marek's is basically everywhere, being carried on the wind, contained in the ground, etc., many flocks have been exposed to the virus. Some people never know they have the disease, while people with weaker breeds/strains of birds see their flocks get severely affected. In my opinion, if everyone with Marek's in their flock did not attend poultry shows, there would be none (or at least very few) poultry shows for others to attend. Poultry shows require plenty of interested, dedicated people to keep going. If most people were banned from showing, or chose not to show, I'm afraid that many shows would lose the support they need.

On the other hand, I think you'd find even more people quitting poultry shows if attitudes like the fellow being discussed were not dealt with seriously. How many people would want to show their valuable birds (some of them may even be loved pets) at a venue if they KNOW for sure that Marek's virus will be floating around a show because a person showing there intentionally brings positive birds? Yes, there is always some disease risk in going to a show, but being blasé about disease control seems like a step in the wrong direction when it comes to encouraging the participation of both serious and hobbyist chicken enthusiasts alike.