Marek's Vaccination?

[Dottie the Chicken]

Morning, all!

Welp, I've got a problem, rather, a possible future problem.
I currently have 78 chickens. 37 of the hens live together in their own pen at night, and 25 of the pullets live in their own pen at night. They free range together during the day. I also have 16 pullets who are about 10 weeks old. Most, if not all of these chickens have been vaccinated (4 of my chickens are feed store birds, so I don't know for sure on them.) In the future, I want to get a rooster. He will most likely get vaccinated, if I continue to do things like I have been. The question is- If I hatch eggs from these birds, is it a really bad thing if I don't vaccinate the chicks? I don't want a Marek's outbreak in my flock, but I'd rather also not have to worry about vaccinating them myself.

Thanks,
Dottie the Chicken

 

[Ridgerunner]

The Marek's vaccination does not give your chickens Marek's. It does not make them carriers. That is often misunderstood.

If you have Marek's in your flock the vaccination stops the development of the lesions that cause the problems. It does not prevent them from getting Marek's and being a carrier. It keep them from showing any symptoms. With a vaccinated bird you do not know if they have Marek's or not. Once they have it they are always a carrier.

To further complicate it, not every non-vaccinated chicken that gets Marek's will show symptoms. Many seem to have a natural resistance. So even if you have unvaccinated birds in your flock with no symptoms you don't know for sure if it is there or not.

If you vaccinate chicks, they need to be isolated from your flock for a few weeks. It takes a few weeks for the vaccine to work. That means you cannot use a broody hen if you have Marek's in your flock as the hen will immediately infect the chicks. You will need to use an incubator and brood them yourself.

None of my chickens have ever been vaccinated for Marek's. To the best of my knowledge Marek's is not in my flock. If it ever shows up I may have to rethink how I manage them. I accept that that could possibly happen but until it does, well worry is interest paid before it is due.

 

[Sonya9]

As others have said the vaccine does NOT give them Marek's.

The problem with the vaccine is that it does not provide 100% protection, that means birds can contract highly deadly forms of Mareks that would normally kill them super quick (before it could spread) but instead they survive longer and spread the virus to others before finally dying.

This is a huge problem and it is causing deadly forms of the Mareks virus to spread rapidly. Normally extremely deadly viruses burn out quick because they kill all their hosts before they can infect enough new hosts to sustain the spread, but the vaccine is changing that so the virus can live much longer in some hosts and spread far and wide while still being incredibly deadly.

I have had Mareks in my flock for over 5 years and have not had a bird get sick in over four years mainly due to changes in flock management (using broodies to raise chicks, preventing integration stress etc...). Obviously my birds carry a mild strain however it is NOT a problem here and I would never vaccinate for it.

Article on how the vaccine is causing the spread of highly deadly viruses:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

 

[Dottie the Chicken]

Wow. So getting my birds vaccinated could actually be a bad thing? What do you think about mixing vaccinated with unvaccinated?

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Seconding what others have said. If you're not keeping them as beloved and isolated pets I wouldn't vaccinate so at least you know if Mareks gets into your flock. They'll die of course and that sucks but it's better than having an infected flock and spreading it and not knowing IMO. Mixing vaccinated chickens and unvaccinated chickens is fine as long as your vaccinated chickens don't carry mareks. It can even help mitigate your risk - the unvaccinated chickens are your "canaries in the coal mine" - if they get sick and die you know why but you don't lose the whole flock.

I don't vaccinate any of my birds and I try to avoid vaccinated birds.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

 

[Sonya9]

Wow. So getting my birds vaccinated could actually be a bad thing? What do you think about mixing vaccinated with unvaccinated?

Mixing vaccinated and non-vaccinated in a closed backyard flock shouldn't matter.

Problem comes in when breeders do it because they are buying and selling birds, so vaccinated birds carrying an extremely deadly form could spread it to other flocks before anyone knew it was happening.

I doubt the show poultry people are vaccinating (at least I hope not) since they tend to buy/sell/swap birds a LOT especially at large shows. They breed for natural resistance anyway.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Wow. So getting my birds vaccinated could actually be a bad thing? What do you think about mixing vaccinated with unvaccinated?

People can always find a reason to not do something or make it more complicated than it is. I see no problems mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated birds. I've seen different arguments against vaccinating, they don't even come close to convincing me that mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated birds is bad. You can come up with all kinds of scenarios where something bad could happen, but most of those apply only to a fully vaccinated flock. The logic usually falls apart when the flock is mixed.

Just about anything you can dream up could possibly happen, life is like that. But the possibility if those actually happening might be really really small.

 

[Sonya9]

People can always find a reason to not do something or make it more complicated than it is. I see no problems mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated birds. I've seen different arguments against vaccinating, they don't even come close to convincing me that mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated birds is bad.

It doesn't matter with tiny chicks from trusted sources but if people were buying older vaccinated birds it could carry a risk since the adults may be secret carriers of something they picked up at the other place and it could go wild once it hits an vaccinated flock.

 

[feather13]

Sorry to crash this conversation, but I also have a Marek's-related question and don't want to replicate all the really helpful information you've all posted here in another thread. We've had Marek's in our flock due to an unethical local hatchery that killed most of our flock. We currently have 3 hens and 12 7-week-old vaccinated chicks from McMurray's.

There is so much information on Marek's on the Internet generally and in lots of helpful forums here, but some of the advice is confusing (at least to me) or conflicting.

Here's my question: When can we integrate our birds? The chicks have outgrown their coop, so free range in the yard during the day with supervision. The hens are about 100 feet downwind from them in a much larger coop and run (in a small orchard).

I apologize if I'm asking a redundant question, but any advice you can give would be appreciated. Thank you for your time!

 

[ladybrasa]

This thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/
Indicates three weeks. I have read other places at least one week. That’s what I’m doing. No way I can separate for three! Maybe two. If you’ve not been washing up between groups though, could be moot since it’s carried in their dander which gets everywhere.