Mareks? What to do?

[seminolewind]

I too had the first necropsy come back inconclusive and it was extremely frustrating. My birds kept dying or having to be culled, but no official reasons. The second one done, proved the Marek's.

One thing, if you suspect Marek's and I think you have good reason to, please act as if it is a proven fact. You need to look at this as if 'you' have Marek's, not just your birds. You can carry it with you to feed stores, neighbors' chickens, etc.. You really can't be selling or giving away any of your birds any more either. To do so would be unconscionable. All it does is spread the disease to others and possibly wipe out their flocks. It also gives the disease a chance to mutate to a point, that any of the vaccines available right now, could become totally useless against it. This is some serious doo doo here and you need to be as educated about Marek's as you can be and aware that there are others out there with it in their birds, with no idea what it is, or don't care. Please don't become one of them.

Okay...off my soapbox now. I am hopeful you will hear back today and be able to get the local help you need to find your way. To have someone who is that close and able to do a visual of your birds would be great.

X2. For right now, I would stop adding chicks until things calm down. Whatever you add later should be vaccinated day 1 and quarantined for at least 2 weeks, the longer the better.

Don't feel guilty. Most people do add chickens all the time to their flock. Eventually you'll add someone with Marek's.
Now I go to swaps and look and hang out, and if I see a breed I like, I get eggs and hatch and quarantine them.Or I buy vaccinated chicks from a hatchery.

It seems that Haunted has developed some pretty good ways to deal with Marek's mentally and physically. You're not alone.

 

[ShellP]

Yes, I've definitely figured out that from now on its either hatchery vaccinated birds or hatching eggs here to vaccinate myself. I have 2 incubators full right now. My "newest" problem is that I have some 3 - 6 week old chicks in quarantine at our barn now that haven't been immunized, so the only other place I can quarantine these when they hatch will be in my house! Hubby's gonna love that - not!

I also have the little frizzle polish chick that started with the wry neck yesterday. I gave her some poly-vi-sol and separated her for the others. Anything else you guys can suggest??

Oh - and the little marans hen that I mentioned yesterday having the respiratory issue died last night. She is bagged up in the fridge now to send off for the necropsy. Should I give them the rooster that is still alive too???

 

[seminolewind]

Yes, I've definitely figured out that from now on its either hatchery vaccinated birds or hatching eggs here to vaccinate myself. I have 2 incubators full right now. My "newest" problem is that I have some 3 - 6 week old chicks in quarantine at our barn now that haven't been immunized, so the only other place I can quarantine these when they hatch will be in my house! Hubby's gonna love that - not!

I also have the little frizzle polish chick that started with the wry neck yesterday. I gave her some poly-vi-sol and separated her for the others. Anything else you guys can suggest??

Oh - and the little marans hen that I mentioned yesterday having the respiratory issue died last night. She is bagged up in the fridge now to send off for the necropsy. Should I give them the rooster that is still alive too???

I doubt it's from the hatchery because those chicks are incubated by them and shipped. Never having contact with other chickens outside themselves. It does not carry in an egg, but a laid chick egg can carry resistance.

It's got to be from chicks that were exposed to other chickens that carry it. The ones you incubate at home have to be vaccinated day 1 and quarantined to give the vaccine time to build resistance.

 

[ShellP]

But y'all don't think I should vaccinate the young chicks that are at my barn, right? It's really too late for that? I have some of the vaccine here now and could do it. But I guess even then I wouldn't know if the mareks disease or the vaccine got in their system first so I still won't be able to put new vaccinated babies with them for at least two weeks....right?

Also, I promise not to be one of those uneducated people that gives or sells birds from my flock. I understand that what's here now is stuck here forever! Also will always make an effort to not leave here and visit any feed stores, other flocks, etc once I go around the chickens at home. Any other suggestions?

 

[settingdusk]

Ask a vet. I would vaccinate em all and eat the downed ones.

 

[Haunted55]

But y'all don't think I should vaccinate the young chicks that are at my barn, right? It's really too late for that? I have some of the vaccine here now and could do it. But I guess even then I wouldn't know if the mareks disease or the vaccine got in their system first so I still won't be able to put new vaccinated babies with them for at least two weeks....right?

Also, I promise not to be one of those uneducated people that gives or sells birds from my flock. I understand that what's here now is stuck here forever! Also will always make an effort to not leave here and visit any feed stores, other flocks, etc once I go around the chickens at home. Any other suggestions?

There are a couple of thoughts about late vaccination and even some learned persons who advocate this practise. If you have it...go for it. There are two things that can happen. One, they are given a chance to ward off the disease or two, they've already been exposed and this could cause trouble at worst or possibly diminish their later symptoms. This will depend on the birds, if their parent's had been exposed, etc.. Unfortunately this isn't an exact science, if it were, Marek's would be no more. If you do decide to vaccinate, keep the birds separate from all of the others for 6-8 weeks. This gives the vaccine the time needed to build resistance in their bodies and eliminate any possible chances of cross contamination through fecal matter or water and food sharing. Either route you go....try to find some turkeys. I am convinced through my own experiences, that this works and isn't the myth some will tell you it is.

Some thing else I am pretty sure about...Marek's isn't spread through casual contact. Not a full blown case of it. If it were there wouldn't be any birds alive, or if they were, they'd be compromised to the point of being pretty much useless. I believe, from my own observations, contact with researchers and Vets working with this disease, that small doses of Marek's actually helps build the resistance needed to survive. It is the 'in your face' exposure that does them in and spreads it through a flock. Food sharing, communal waterer, roosts and close bodily contact. Litter, not changed enough, would be another way of spread because, let's face it, they do love to scratch and peck and they aren't really picky about where they do it.

I was able to speak with one of the Field Veterinarians, who works for one of the big drug companies. He explained his thoughts and experiences to me this way.....'If you kiss someone with a cold sore, are you going to get one? Depends on the exposure, overall health and duration of contact. If you're run down...you might, if the kiss lasts long enough and is an enthusiastic sharing....most probably, if your health is good and the exposure is limited...probably not. A lot of variables but it makes the most sense to me and has shown itself in practise here, time and again.

Another thought here is what form of the disease, if it is, do you have there? Is it a straight forward case of Marek's? Whatever that is...or is it a virulent mutation that will wipe out most of your flock? You won't have the answers to this until you have a necropsy done. I'm more sorry than you will ever know, that there are no hard and fast answers here.

One other thing I would suggest to you and everyone else. Buy any Marek's vaccine now during the hatching season for later use. It's darned near impossible to find in November and December as the companies stop making it in quantity. Everything is geared towards the hatcheries, so it goes by their busy seasons.

 

[Haunted55]

But y'all don't think I should vaccinate the young chicks that are at my barn, right? It's really too late for that? I have some of the vaccine here now and could do it. But I guess even then I wouldn't know if the mareks disease or the vaccine got in their system first so I still won't be able to put new vaccinated babies with them for at least two weeks....right?

Also, I promise not to be one of those uneducated people that gives or sells birds from my flock. I understand that what's here now is stuck here forever! Also will always make an effort to not leave here and visit any feed stores, other flocks, etc once I go around the chickens at home. Any other suggestions?

Oxine. It will end up being one of your best friends.

http://www.revivalanimal.com/Oxine-Fogger-and-Oxine-AH.html http://www.shagbarkbantams.com/oxine.htm

As for the rest...common sense. Clean clothes, clean body, if you know you will be near any place that will have anything to do with animals. Not just for you possibly spreading it either. As I said before, there are some out there who just don't know, don't care to know, or in all out denial of what is staring them in the face. Marek's is only one of the 'nasties' out there. There are plenty more that can be brought home by accident.

I don't want to be seen as a 'doom sayer', there is life after Marek's. Really! Lol. It's just different and takes a bit of fortitude and courage to see it through. Your birds will be happy right up until the pain is bad, at which time you will know, or until the very end, either through culling or 'natural' deaths. Both Seminolewind and I have said this before...they don't know they're sick or special needs chickens. They're just happy to be alive, see the sun come up, plentiful feed and water and have a warm, safe place to be. What else is there? They know you, as flock master, are looking out for them and they feel the love.

 

[ShellP]

Well, I found two turkeys today but they are only a few days old. I had the people meet me with them so I wouldn't bring my "marek funk" on their farm. I put the little poults at the barn with the younger flock, in a separate pen because they are a good bit smaller that my chicks. I'm trying to find some adult turkeys to put with the rest of the flock here at the house. Does anyone know if having the young poults will have any positive effect? Or do only the grown turkeys seem to help?

I have already been using Oxine to clean the food and water dishes. I also use it in a fogger that I use to spray down the insides of the coops once a month or so. Tonight I actually have some diluted in water in a humidifier in the garage with the blue rooster (set on a timer). I think I'm going to start spraying it on me. My own Oxine perfume. Haha. Maybe I'll even Fog my whole house too. However i have never used it with the activator. My husband is a contractor and has the breathing apparatus that I would need to use. Should I go ahead and spend a day or two suited up and spraying down the coops, runs and the areas they tend to hang out when they free range? Probably couldn't hurt.

I do believe I'm going to go ahead and vaccinate all of the youngsters at the barn. Except the poults (I assume).

Thank you all again. I hope one day to be able to repay y'all somehow! You've been such a huge help! -Michele

 

[Zrcalo]

It doesnt always have to be mareks. I had a hen with this exact same thing. The limping and then she was scuttling around on her hocks. It ended up being mold spores in the feed I was giving my chickens. I took her inside and after two weeks with no improvement, I switched her feed. BAM! She was up and running within a week.

If I were you, I would take this bird inside and give him chick starter and vitamins. See if he gets better or worse. If worse, then it's mareks. If better, it might've been the feed.

 

[ShellP]

Wow. That would be so awesome! It has been SOOO wet and rainy here, maybe my feed has gotten a bit damp or something. I'll definitely give that a try. Thanks!