Mean, mean "Attilla the Hen"

[FiddleChics]

I wonder if part of her problem is she's still 'feeling broody'.

@aart, I think you may be hitting the nail on the head. But she's been continuing to lay - but she sits on in the nesting box for hours. And for weeks before she was sneaking onto the nesting boxes at night. During the day I shooo her off of it if she's already laid and I've taken the egg away, but she has been doing broody droppings in the morning... no mistaking those.
Here is Attila - this afternoon, on her 2nd day in the penalty box. She puffed herself up like a big old turkey... wings out... growling... it's awful. Do you think this is broody?

 

[aart]

Do you think this is broody?

Could be....surprised she's not sitting on the nest tho?
Wonder if you put her in the coop, alone, she would beeline for the nest?

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Here is Attila this afternoon... Ugh. Not much progress...
View attachment 1802482

Wow, she is a gorgeous hen! I have three broodies right now, one with chicks, one with eggs, and one I’m trying to break. Atilla does look just like my broodies. Some of mine go broody like a light switch, no more eggs and in the nest box all of the time. But two of them do a slow brood thing more like Atilla, more time in the nest box but if I kick them out then they stay out for awhile and they keep laying. I’m afraid if I try to break them of being broody before they stop laying, they will get egg bound, so the slow to brood thing is tough. My guess is that you need the broodiness hormones to subside before she can work things out with the newbies. I wonder how things would go if she incubated her own eggs (fenced off from the rest) and had some chicks to raise? The whole process would keep her busy for a long time. By the time it ended, your current new chicks would be her new normal... BTW, we jokingly called Vespucci’s area Rooster Jail, but I doubt that he had any clue why he was there. I think what we did was really basic “look but don’t touch” integration, where the constant presence of the other Roos convinced them all that they were part of the same flock, so Vespucci no longer felt the need to drive the other roosters away...

 

[FiddleChics]

Wow, she is a gorgeous hen! I have three broodies right now, one with chicks, one with eggs, and one I’m trying to break. Atilla does look just like my broodies. Some of mine go broody like a light switch, no more eggs and in the nest box all of the time. But two of them do a slow brood thing more like Atilla, more time in the nest box but if I kick them out then they stay out for awhile and they keep laying. I’m afraid if I try to break them of being broody before they stop laying, they will get egg bound, so the slow to brood thing is tough. My guess is that you need the broodiness hormones to subside before she can work things out with the newbies. I wonder how things would go if she incubated her own eggs (fenced off from the rest) and had some chicks to raise? The whole process would keep her busy for a long time. By the time it ended, your current new chicks would be her new normal... BTW, we jokingly called Vespucci’s area Rooster Jail, but I doubt that he had any clue why he was there. I think what we did was really basic “look but don’t touch” integration, where the constant presence of the other Roos convinced them all that they were part of the same flock, so Vespucci no longer felt the need to drive the other roosters away...

Thanks, she is really shiny, and she's been a very good layer too.
I had thought about hatching eggs, and love the idea of that, especially with the kids, but my town has a noise ordinance against roosters, and it would be terrible to have to get rid of any of the chicks - if they hatched a male. Too worrisome.

I think that - 'slow broody' is a spot-on description - & this sounds just like your hen. She is still laying like normal... but passing the large broody dropping in the morning and hovering too long on the nest after she's laid. Yet, after I fluff her off the nest, she stays off & doesn't generally go back to the nest... just walks around being cranky.

This morning, I went out to get her and she didn't puff up, or act nasty at all. There were no grumbles either, so these are good signs! 2 days/nights in the jail, and maybe it's worked? And the Pinless Peepers are out for delivery now! I can get them on her asap - and let her go back with the rest of the flock, & hopefully she'll have a new outlook.

I picked her up and pet her, when I carried her into the coop and she was ok - a little shook up from being in exile - but she calmed when I pet her. She went right onto the nest & I've set a timer for about an hour, to go check on her... and hope she's not going back to broody, but she has to lay... but now I'm hoping there's no egg bound issues. Though I put a nest in the crate for her yesterday for a few hours - and she didn't lay on it at all. I hope this is all going to smooth out soon! Thanks again to everyone, and thanks @Mixed flock enthusiast for all your great & positive words.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Thanks, she is really shiny, and she's been a very good layer too.
I had thought about hatching eggs, and love the idea of that, especially with the kids, but my town has a noise ordinance against roosters, and it would be terrible to have to get rid of any of the chicks - if they hatched a male. Too worrisome.

I think that - 'slow broody' is a spot-on description - & this sounds just like your hen. She is still laying like normal... but passing the large broody dropping in the morning and hovering too long on the nest after she's laid. Yet, after I fluff her off the nest, she stays off & doesn't generally go back to the nest... just walks around being cranky.

This morning, I went out to get her and she didn't puff up, or act nasty at all. There were no grumbles either, so these are good signs! 2 days/nights in the jail, and maybe it's worked? And the Pinless Peepers are out for delivery now! I can get them on her asap - and let her go back with the rest of the flock, & hopefully she'll have a new outlook.

I picked her up and pet her, when I carried her into the coop and she was ok - a little shook up from being in exile - but she calmed when I pet her. She went right onto the nest & I've set a timer for about an hour, to go check on her... and hope she's not going back to broody, but she has to lay... but now I'm hoping there's no egg bound issues. Though I put a nest in the crate for her yesterday for a few hours - and she didn't lay on it at all. I hope this is all going to smooth out soon! Thanks again to everyone, and thanks @Mixed flock enthusiast for all your great & positive words.

Of our three that are currently broody, only one (our little silkie) directs that aggression towards people. The other two look fierce, but are even more docile with us then usual, letting me pull eggs or chicks from under them, pick them up, etc. Our silkie, Susan, is proving stubbornly hard to “break” this cycle. She can’t be in the run because our mean girls attack her when she’s broody. She’s also one that goes broody slowly, so I worry I’ve isolated her too soon and she will get egg bound. Anyway, to keep up her spirits, I pick her up from her isolation cage (to break her broodiness and keep her safe from the other hens) and take her outside with some scratch and mealworms. We spend some time together away from my mean flock so she can relax and dust bathe and have some treats. She recently lost her best friend, Marilyn, due to Marek’s, so our flock has not been a great place for her since then. When we are done with current eggs and babies, we plan to give her some silkie mix eggs for her to hatch in hopes she will get some friends out of it who aren’t so vulnerable in our mixed flock. It’s true that dealing with boy babies is hard if the chickens become your pets. We’ve exceeded our rooster capacity and have Marek's so we won’t be adopting boys out or keeping them. Susan’s the low hen on the totem pole, so I expect integrating her babies will be super challenging! I’m posting a picture of her and Marilyn so you can see what she looks like. I hope the peepers work for you; I’d really love to hear updates of how your integration goes so I can learn from your experience!

 

[newshound]

I keep my peeps away longer, till they are about the same size. You may have put them in too soon. Another plan would be to put thenew ones in by themselves, put the two hens in something separate for a while till the peeps are full size. 11 hens to two should beless of a problem.

 

[FiddleChics]

Of our three that are currently broody, only one (our little silkie) directs that aggression towards people. The other two look fierce, but are even more docile with us then usual, letting me pull eggs or chicks from under them, pick them up, etc. Our silkie, Susan, is proving stubbornly hard to “break” this cycle. She can’t be in the run because our mean girls attack her when she’s broody. She’s also one that goes broody slowly, so I worry I’ve isolated her too soon and she will get egg bound. Anyway, to keep up her spirits, I pick her up from her isolation cage (to break her broodiness and keep her safe from the other hens) and take her outside with some scratch and mealworms. We spend some time together away from my mean flock so she can relax and dust bathe and have some treats. She recently lost her best friend, Marilyn, due to Marek’s, so our flock has not been a great place for her since then. When we are done with current eggs and babies, we plan to give her some silkie mix eggs for her to hatch in hopes she will get some friends out of it who aren’t so vulnerable in our mixed flock. It’s true that dealing with boy babies is hard if the chickens become your pets. We’ve exceeded our rooster capacity and have Marek's so we won’t be adopting boys out or keeping them. Susan’s the low hen on the totem pole, so I expect integrating her babies will be super challenging! I’m posting a picture of her and Marilyn so you can see what she looks like. I hope the peepers work for you; I’d really love to hear updates of how your integration goes so I can learn from your experience!

Aww! So cute! Poor little Susan! I learned with this batch of chicks... they seem happier with a buddy of the same breed. I ordered 2 of each type & was amazed at how the breeds stick together! I guess that old saying "birds of a feather flock together" is true. My Buff Orpingtons are so sweet & friendly and they're always side by side... but they flutter around under the Alpha, (who's a red-sexlink) & she seems to tolerate them a bit more than all the others, giving them a little more leeway when they're near & she's eating.
That's a really good idea to take Susan out, and let her hang out - away from the others, while you're around outside! I want to do that, but I'm afraid to let ours free range at all... but that's in the back of my mind for Attila, if nothing else works.

The whole feel & attitude of this flock now, with Attila in confinement for the past 3 days is relaxed & happy. Even when giving treats, they're very respectful of the Alpha hen... who takes her treats first - but they get their share too, without much trouble at all. It's very peaceful.

So, today's day 3 - & this afternoon (with the moral support of my husband when he gets home from work) I'm going to let Attila out with the other girls, and see how it goes. She has stopped the terrible growling & puffery, so I"m hoping the 3 days in the penalty box broke this terrible thing she's going through.
OOF... and the Pinless Peepers arrived... YIKES! Though I knew how they worked... to actually SEE how they pierce into their nose to hold them on... it makes me feel bad... and I'd never want to hurt anyone... so I don't know... I"m a little afraid to apply them. BUT... if she comes out of the penalty box this afternoon - and she returns to being horrid... then it's Step 2: The Pinless peepers. I'll post later, when we see what happens!

 

[Wee Farmer Sarah]

Hi @FiddleChics, I thought I would share an update on my crazy chickens. I've been trying the supervised "free ranging" with all the girls and it has been OK. Also, I've lowered the protective fence barrier inside the coop so the littles can hop on over to the roosting bars during the day. There's been some feather plucking, but no blood drawn. This morning after I lowered the curtain, two of my hens who have trouble climbing down the ladder roost hopped over to the littles area and politely nudged the littles over to the main roost and the two older hens just checked out their safe house and helped themselves to their food. Later I found one of these girls crammed into a nest box with Miss Vicious and they were growling at each other. So there appears to be some progress. However, I am really looking forward to an update on the pin-less peepers from you.

 

[FiddleChics]

Hi @FiddleChics, I thought I would share an update on my crazy chickens. I've been trying the supervised "free ranging" with all the girls and it has been OK. Also, I've lowered the protective fence barrier inside the coop so the littles can hop on over to the roosting bars during the day. There's been some feather plucking, but no blood drawn. This morning after I lowered the curtain, two of my hens who have trouble climbing down the ladder roost hopped over to the littles area and politely nudged the littles over to the main roost and the two older hens just checked out their safe house and helped themselves to their food. Later I found one of these girls crammed into a nest box with Miss Vicious and they were growling at each other. So there appears to be some progress. However, I am really looking forward to an update on the pin-less peepers from you.

Oh That's progress for sure! I approached the mixing of the babies & hens VERY much the same way you're describing. After 3+ weeks of "look don't touch" I lifted the wire fencing so only the littles could fit under... lol but of course the Alpha squeezed into the Peep area (a 6'x8' area) and she went & tried their food, then hopped up on the roost. A few Peeps went and sat at a safe distance - but they slowly went out on their own, exploring into the big run where I set up lots of places for them to hide/ escape a chasing hen.
But I must admit ..."crammed in the nesting box with Miss Vicious" made me laugh. With Attila still in the penalty box - there's peace & contentment in the flock... but I can't imagine anyone squeezing into a nesting box with her!!! LOL! The Alpha hen & the 'Peeps" (the littles) are happy though and there's no squabbling. Later today, I'm planning on releasing Attila out with the rest. I"m gonna park myself out there, and watch like a hawk... and IF she's horrid... I'll move onto plan 2, (AKA Pin-less Peepers.)

I received the 25 pinless peepers & the pliers that come with it... oof... I DREAD having to use them on Attila... they seem like they'd REALLY dig into the nose holes, which is a bit daunting. But everyone says they're humane and effective, so if she's not nice, she'll be wearing them tonight. I'll post the results... and if I can - take pics.

 

[FiddleChics]

UPDATE: I let Attila out of the penalty box around noon to mingle with the flock. At first she was fine, probably for about 30-40 minutes... then she started chasing the littles for no apparent reason. The chicks were all laying down napping - and she walked towards them, and attacked. It's not like they were trying to share or take her prize food, or take the best dust bath spot... it was just random nastiness. So I acted immediately, & put her back in the penalty box.

Around 6 pm, we let her out again. She was mellow and behaved within the realm of what an adult hen should do - with new, 9+ week old chicks... no aggression was detected, so we let her stay out. There were no issues.

But I was constantly checking - and then it began to get dark... and everyone started moving into the coop as normal. Good sign. Watching from the camera, I saw 7 chicks hop up through the chicken door - into the coop, and move up onto the roosts... ugh... then in walks Attila. They all scattered as she lunged at them, they were flying up the walls, hitting the windows, smashing into each other in a panic to get away from her. She was pecking & biting at them and they ran out. I watched her climb up on the top roosting bar and settle there. No one was in the coop now, except her.

Then, the chicks began to go back into the coop, to try again... and she attacked anyone that tried to climb up onto the roosting bars... even when they were at the far end, about 5 feet away & no where near her.

I ran outside at this point, and got her out of the coop, and she's back in the penalty box out in the run.

She's been on that roost with 6 other chickens last year this time, that were all her age when her group of chicks came in. I'm starting to wonder if she's crazy... or mental.

Now we move onto plan 2: Tomorrow my husband will help me put the pinless peepers on her. More to come.