Meat Type x Egg Laying Type = Tue Dual Purpose cross

[nicalandia]

Many people often wonder what the best all around type of breed that will provide both good amount of meat on a timely manner(10-12 weeks) and good amount of eggs. I've been doing a lot of research on the matter and believed that the best cross to produce both a lot of Males(about 150) for the fridge and a lot of hens for eggs(about 260 per production cycle) is the cross of Cornishx male with red sexlink hens(Lohman Brown/Hyline Brown/ISA Brown).

Lohman Brown Males: 3 pounds live weight at 10 weeks of age(20 g/d Adg)
Lohman Brown Females : 320 eggs at 72 weeks of age/ 430 at 95 weeks of age

Cobb 500 Broiler: 12 pounds at 70 weeks of age(80 g/d adg)

The cross will yield a 6 pound male at 10 weeks of age(42 g/d adg) and hens that will lay about 260 eggs to 62 weeks), these hens in turn can be crossed back to CornishX and produce Males that average 60 g/d adg.

https://www.ltz.de/de-wAssets/docs/dual/poultry-news-2-2013.pdf

 

[Tre3hugger]

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Floof]

I was wondering if you've tried this cross and if you can breed them sustainably as a closed flock or if you must start with new birds every couple years?
Ps. I love reading all your genetics insights

 

[speedy2020]

It is good on papper and selling point, but the reality little different. I expect about 4 weeks later than mention.

 

[nicalandia]

It is good on papper and selling point, but the reality little different. I expect about 4 weeks later than mention.

The Market is mostly for Europe as they want to get rid of day old male chick maceration. I would think that the best rout would be:

Raising a few CornishX males or the best Heavy males you could get(dont use Red Broilers as they have Sex linked recessive Dwarfism) with Red Sex Linked egg layers.

 

[speedy2020]

The Market is mostly for Europe as they want to get rid of day old male chick maceration. I would think that the best rout would be:

Raising a few CornishX males or the best Heavy males you could get(dont use Red Broilers as they have Sex linked recessive Dwarfism) with Red Sex Linked egg layers.

I have crossed Ixworth x Bresse, but the result isn't promising. My CornishX are about 10-11 weeks old and plan to make a cross CornishX x Bresse in the near future. Hopefully, I able to get tasty meat bird 5+lbs at 10-14 weeks.

 

[nicalandia]

I have crossed Ixworth x Bresse, but the result isn't promising.

What were you expecting from the cross? Usually from a cross of two known but unrelated breeds you can add up to 10% heterosis, but that is not much when both parents are average growth and FCR, for example if one parent growth to 12 weeks is 5 pounds and the other parent is 4, the average will be 4.5(what you would expect if no heterosis and in same rearing/feeding regime), so if you combine two average growth breeds, you can expect average progeny, its the same in CornishX breeding as both parents have exceptional growth, the sire line are bred for maximum growth and dame line for maximum reproduction efficiency(Grand Parent sire males weight 200 grams more at 6 weeks of age compared to Grand Parent dame males when they are broilerized to 2400 grams vs 2200 grams)


Broilerizing: Is the act of feeding Pedigree breeding stock(Sire and Dame Grand Parent lines) unrestricted feed(preferably the same feed available to end product broilers) for 6 weeks so they can express their full growth potential. their FCR and growth should be within the normal parameters of the end/terminal broilers.

You maight ask yourself: If the Sire, Dame and Terminal lines are so close to each other in growth and FCR why they have separate lines? Well for other factors that are of very little concern to the backyard breeders. EFFICIENCY: when you are a multibillion dollar industry every hatched egg matter, Dame lines hens lay about 200 eggs per reproduction cycle, the Sire line hens produce between 120 and 140. the terminal hens if properly fed will lay the average of both parent, also the crossing of Maternal and Paternal lines will boost fertility and hatchability

 

[Ridgerunner]

You might ask yourself: If the Sire, Dame and Terminal lines are so close to each other in growth and FCR why they have separate lines?

This might be a good time to ask this question, I figure you'd know if I can clearly ask. How much difference in the critical genetics is there in the maternal grandparent flock lines? You just said there are differences in the paternal versus maternal sides so I'll stick to just one of those sides. I suspect there really isn't much difference in the genes that matter.

When you cross hybrids you get inconsistent results. You want consistent results in the terminal cross, so you want the terminal cross to act like an F1. The only way you can do that is for the mother and father to not be "hybrids', at least in the genes that matter.

By "critical" genes I mean the genes in the paternal line and the genes in the maternal line that when crossed create the qualities you want in the terminal cross.

Through the whole process I think you want to maintain as much genetic diversity in the different grandparent lines as you can to avoid inbreeding issues while maintaining the genetics needed for the terminal cross. That's not really part of the question unless you care to comment.

My guess is that there really isn't any difference in the critical genes between the maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother lines, but that the reason they maintain different lines is so they get a boost in heterosis when they cross those lines to make the broiler's mother.

 

[nicalandia]

My guess is that there really isn't any difference in the critical genes between the maternal grandfather and maternal grandmother lines, but that the reason they maintain different lines is so they get a boost in heterosis when they cross those lines to make the broiler's mother.

I agree with that, all of my research I have done points to that direction, I would say that the Sire lines are bred for the most growth and fertlility and Dame lines for reproductive performance while keeping about the same FCR, the fact that both lines can become broilers if not feed restricted in the same amount of time than terminal cross(F1 End product) points to that.

A backyard breeder would be hard pressed to notice any diference between the two lines and it only become aparent whe we understan that in such competitive enviroment every hatched chick matters and every day of extra feeding mean less revenue.

 

[nicalandia]

https://www.cobb-vantress.com/asset...8454/3450c490-bbd7-11e6-bd5d-55bb08833e29.pdf