Meatie Experiment: FF 'vs' Crumbles

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

I am intrigued by the fermentation. How do you know there is fermantation occuring rather than simply soaking the feed?

 

[jrsckn]

CO2 bubbles indicate fermentation as well as the sweet smell that develops along with the cultures that grow on the top between stirrings.

 

[mstricer]

Are you going to let both groups free range? Curious if the CC will want to hang around the feeder or if they will actually get out and forage. I have noticed that my FFC love to forage. The fenced in part of my lawn is almost totally dandelion free because the CX seem to LOVE them!! My batch of CC last year did nothing but lay around the feeder/water area, resulting is bare chests and some seriously poopy butts.

Mine don't do that. My CC run around looking for bugs and grass at 3 weeks. They have a feeder for 12 hrs. holds 7 lbs, they eat about 51/2 lbs a day, I have 48 CX's. I have to chase most back in. It appears that fermenting feed, is 1. Time consuming 2. More expensive 3. The growth weight is a sizable difference.
I wanted to ask the OP if they order all the same sex, or a straight run. That also could have a big impact in their experiment. I find the boys grow faster.

 

[myhubbycallsmechickeemama]

Mine don't do that. My CC run around looking for bugs and grass at 3 weeks. They have a feeder for 12 hrs. holds 7 lbs, they eat about 51/2 lbs a day, I have 48 CX's. I have to chase most back in. It appears that fermenting feed, is 1. Time consuming 2. More expensive 3. The growth weight is a sizable difference.
I wanted to ask the OP if they order all the same sex, or a straight run. That also could have a big impact in their experiment. I find the boys grow faster.

I find just the opposite, some of my biggest birds are pullets!! Yes, all birds in this trial are the same sex. As far as being more time consuming...it takes me a whole 10 minutes longer to get my next batch fermenting. I don't know where you get that it is more expensive, I have not found that to be the case. Yes, they are slower growing but when I'm doing it for myself, who cares.

To begin with I was stating my own experience and I DID NOT SAY that this was the case for all CX.

To each their own right!?!

 

[jrsckn]

Mine don't do that. My CC run around looking for bugs and grass at 3 weeks. They have a feeder for 12 hrs. holds 7 lbs, they eat about 51/2 lbs a day, I have 48 CX's. I have to chase most back in. It appears that fermenting feed, is 1. Time consuming 2. More expensive 3. The growth weight is a sizable difference.
I wanted to ask the OP if they order all the same sex, or a straight run. That also could have a big impact in their experiment. I find the boys grow faster.

1. TIME
The only time consuming aspect is that I have 4 different groups I'm caring for right now. I have 17 chicks (11BR, 3 BO, and 3 reds) that are 14 weeks old outside in the coop that eat fermented grower+grains. I have 10 (4 EE, 5 JG, 1 SLW) 5 week old chicks in one brooder getting their own separate fermented feed and crumbles because I don't have a feeder large enough to give them ff exclusively because space is an issue. I have 26 total CX chicks that are 3 weeks old; 8 in one brooder being fed crumbles and 18 more CX chicks in a third brooder getting only ff. So to summarize, I have 1 coop, 3 brooders, and 4 separate buckets of ff going so I can monitor feed intake of the CX to properly analyze results. If I only fed ff there wouldn't be much of a time difference. Scoop feed into a bucket, add ACV, top off with water and stir. When feeding, scoop in a strainer, let drain while giving chicks water then pour in the feeder, done.

2.$$
At this point ff is NOT more expensive, it is cheaper. Who knows what the end results will be, that's the whole point of this experiment. Yes, the FFC got off to a slower start but over week 2, they gained 0.5 more ounces per cup of feed they were fed compared to the chicks fed the crumbles, that is more efficient, not more costly.

3. Size
Growth was slower at first but the FFC ddin't eat well for the first few days and we are only 1/4 of the way through this experiment so its way too soon to tell what the final outcome will be and whether the CC are heavier because of muscle mass or water/food weight; only slaughter will tell the whole story.

4. Sex
All CX are supposed to be pullets, we'll see soon enough how many errors the hatchery made, if any.

Botton line, I'm waiting until these birds are processed to make any decisions on using ff in the future. With such a big difference between week 1 and 2 results, anything is possible.

 

[mstricer]

Geez people I was just stating my opinion and not saying anything wrong with what you are doing. I happened by it and looked. I am finding sometimes you can add your 2 cents and other times people take it too personal. I am interested in what you are doing. Sorry I intruded on your thread.
Michele

 

[jrsckn]

Nothing was taken personal, I wasn't attacking you or your thoughts. However, you said ff "appeared" more time consuming and expensive, I was just trying to show you why I felt otherwise. I agreed with your observation that they grow slower. Sorry if you took my response as an attack, I just feel it's too soon to draw any conclusions.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

When is the end of this experiment? Does your protocol call for the birds to be slaughtered at the same age or the same weight? This is an item that researchers struggle with regularly. In some cases the slaughter end can skew the results of the experiment substantially.

Jim

 

[jrsckn]

When is the end of this experiment? Does your protocol call for the birds to be slaughtered at the same age or the same weight? This is an item that researchers struggle with regularly. In some cases the slaughter end can skew the results of the experiment substantially.

Jim

That is a very good question! I've been struggling with it a lot lately. I intend to slaughter all at the same time to determine the actual weight of the dressed bird for my calculations. I feel there is a possibility for lot of variation in water retention and offal weight from each group. But, I almost feel that I'm sacrificing the potential for a good sized bird in the name of science lol. In the end, if my birds don't have a good average weight by 8 weeks, I'll probably try to keep them all growing for a couple more weeks to get a better overall size.

 

[Island Roo]

Given the slow growth at the beginning and the huddling under the heat lamp during the first week (or 2) I'm wondering if it would make sense to either:
- start the birds on dry crumble with ACV in the water OR
- give them a choice of dry or fermented for the first week (or 2)

Once the chicks have that strong initial start, switch to all FF.

I've got another batch coming - maybe that'll be my experiment.