Medicated vs. non-medicated?
- Thread starter chickenfeed
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I do use medicated feed but I check the label to see if the medication is "amprolium" which is a cocciodisitant. A thiamine blocker that helps the chicks develop their own immunity to cocci. Just because it is medicated, it does not mean they can't get it, it just adds a bit of resistance while they are working on their own resistance. After the chicks are a week or so old, some contact with the soil outside, maybe for an hour or so, where the cocci lives, will help them build immunity as it will give them exposure to the paracite.
I personally rather use medicated feed, as it prevents me from having to treat with sulfamethazone(sp) if they get sick later. Cocci can kill in days. I always keep a cocciodistant on hand just in case.
However, I do not agree with giving antibiotics unless there is an infection, or a high risk of infection, such as dog bites, large wounds, or a confirmed case of a Bacterial Infection.
Either way, it is up to you what food to use, I have done it both ways. With only one flock of non medicated chicks getting sick. They were a late summer batch that I was late in introducing to soil.
I personally rather use medicated feed, as it prevents me from having to treat with sulfamethazone(sp) if they get sick later. Cocci can kill in days. I always keep a cocciodistant on hand just in case.
However, I do not agree with giving antibiotics unless there is an infection, or a high risk of infection, such as dog bites, large wounds, or a confirmed case of a Bacterial Infection.
Either way, it is up to you what food to use, I have done it both ways. With only one flock of non medicated chicks getting sick. They were a late summer batch that I was late in introducing to soil.
Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :
Amprollium and the other coccidiostats are PARASITICIDES not ANTIBIOTICS. Due to FDA and AAFCO regulations any feed adulterated with any medicine must be called "medicated". This includes parasitides/dewormers.
This is correct. According to WSU and WSDA any chickens given medicated feeds (which includes ALL coccidiostats) cannot be labeled "antibiotic free".
I have coccidiossis 'like whoa' on my side of the mountains. The only sustainable option I have is to let birds die who get it and breed the ones who are unaffected.
Amprollium and the other coccidiostats are PARASITICIDES not ANTIBIOTICS. Due to FDA and AAFCO regulations any feed adulterated with any medicine must be called "medicated". This includes parasitides/dewormers.
This is correct. According to WSU and WSDA any chickens given medicated feeds (which includes ALL coccidiostats) cannot be labeled "antibiotic free".
I have coccidiossis 'like whoa' on my side of the mountains. The only sustainable option I have is to let birds die who get it and breed the ones who are unaffected.
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This is correct in the sense that giving medicated feed to vaccinated chickens is a bad thing.
However, if you plan to maintain a closed flock and do your own breeding, I'd strongly recommend not using medicated feeds. Your flock will never build up a resistance to coccidiossis which you need to improve your flock's vigor over generations.
And my final point is that the coccidiossis vaccine is still considered dubious. The studies show it to be slightly better than a control group. But people certainly still get coccidiossis in some vaccinated birds.
This is correct in the sense that giving medicated feed to vaccinated chickens is a bad thing.
However, if you plan to maintain a closed flock and do your own breeding, I'd strongly recommend not using medicated feeds. Your flock will never build up a resistance to coccidiossis which you need to improve your flock's vigor over generations.
And my final point is that the coccidiossis vaccine is still considered dubious. The studies show it to be slightly better than a control group. But people certainly still get coccidiossis in some vaccinated birds.
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This isn't true in the slightest. You may not use medicated starter in an organic flock and would get the 'death sentence' if you were to get caught.
This isn't true in the slightest. You may not use medicated starter in an organic flock and would get the 'death sentence' if you were to get caught.
You are correct.
Vaccinations are, however, permitted, which doesn't make much sense whichever way you cut it.
Given that the medication is not an antibiotic, and is fed for only the first few weeks to help prevent a devastating disease, then this approach has little logic.
I know *rules is rules*, I guess my chickens will never be organic. They will, however, be healthy
Vaccinations are, however, permitted, which doesn't make much sense whichever way you cut it.
Given that the medication is not an antibiotic, and is fed for only the first few weeks to help prevent a devastating disease, then this approach has little logic.
I know *rules is rules*, I guess my chickens will never be organic. They will, however, be healthy
If you read the preamble to the NOP there is an emphasis on raising animals without suffering, pain and allowing them to exhibit natural behavior patterns. As far as husbandry goes, we have very few regulations in the US compared with say England where if you are organic there are prohibited practices (such as beak trimming, tail docking, etc.).
So, I think it is in the spirit of the NOP to say that if we vaccinate, we are preventing needless suffering of animals. I think it's taking a leap to say "we should do everything possible including medicating animals prohpylactially to prevent suffering" which goes against the attempts to provide the purest food source.
Anyway, I know lots of people will argue against organic saying it's cruel. SMART people are for it. It is a mechanism for you sell your product at a higher cost and organic farms have far less costs in they way of inputs and are the most profitable. How on earth can it be a bad thing?
So, I think it is in the spirit of the NOP to say that if we vaccinate, we are preventing needless suffering of animals. I think it's taking a leap to say "we should do everything possible including medicating animals prohpylactially to prevent suffering" which goes against the attempts to provide the purest food source.
Anyway, I know lots of people will argue against organic saying it's cruel. SMART people are for it. It is a mechanism for you sell your product at a higher cost and organic farms have far less costs in they way of inputs and are the most profitable. How on earth can it be a bad thing?
I was not meaning to suggest that organic food production is not a good thing
However, if it is deemed sensible to vaccinate against coccidiosis, then there really can't be much of an arguement against providing similar protection via feedstuffs, during the first few weeks. We are not discussing the widespread practise of overuse of antibiotics here.
Adding a coccidiostat to the highest quality of foods doesn't actually detract either from the quality of the food or the quality of the product.
Humans use prophylactic treatments all the time. There is a place for such treatments in all aspects of life and animal husbandry - even, in my view, in organic production. None of which is me suggesting that treatment should replace good husbandry.
Please don't get me started on a comparasion between regulation in the UK, and that in the USA
Beak trimming, the example you give, is a clear point where the UK is advanced. Proper husbandry, with some selective culling, maybe, effectively reduces the need for this practise to about zero. Ig God hadn't mean't chickens to have long sharp beaks, he woulda given them knives and forks!
While we are on the subject ..... declawing of cats is a practise allowed here. Ant Vet doing this in the UK would lose their license.
I am, as we all appear to be here, committed to providing the best care I can. I guess the discussion helps enlighten and educate us all
However, if it is deemed sensible to vaccinate against coccidiosis, then there really can't be much of an arguement against providing similar protection via feedstuffs, during the first few weeks. We are not discussing the widespread practise of overuse of antibiotics here.
Adding a coccidiostat to the highest quality of foods doesn't actually detract either from the quality of the food or the quality of the product.
Humans use prophylactic treatments all the time. There is a place for such treatments in all aspects of life and animal husbandry - even, in my view, in organic production. None of which is me suggesting that treatment should replace good husbandry.
Please don't get me started on a comparasion between regulation in the UK, and that in the USA
While we are on the subject ..... declawing of cats is a practise allowed here. Ant Vet doing this in the UK would lose their license.
I am, as we all appear to be here, committed to providing the best care I can. I guess the discussion helps enlighten and educate us all
You can say another thing. If it weren't for vaccinations being allowed under organic rules, a coccidiossis vaccine would **never** have been developed. Chickens are viewed as disposable by the industry and there would be no reason to vaccinate them if you could just load them up on medicated feeds to prevent crop loss. Afterall, 42 days after hatch and they're gone.
Maybe so, unless they start to loss a lot of birds to it. Then it would become a cost analysis.
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