Methods for checking Emu eggs Pre-Hatch (please post methods)

[Ebarnes-21]

Additional note to this page ... I think I have shown that eggs may or may not change tone (to a clicky, china sound) if they are taped, as in a circuit of electrical tape around the middle to prevent excessive moisture loss.

I've had the smallest half of my 6 eggs losing weight too fast and I taped them to help balance the whole clutch out better. Two out of the three sounded different afterwards.

So either my two eggs are rotten and both showed after taping, or you should be aware that taped eggs may start sounding 'bad' immediately afterwards, and it probably doesn't mean anything if they do.

This around day 20-27.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Day 31. Running at 36C.

I just ran my first series of tests on 6 emu eggs, no results so far. Probably too early to say for sure at day 30.

Rocker test: I sat them all out on my flat surface (hard floor, safer than a table I figure, they can't fall any further right?) for a total of 15 minutes, the first 10 watching intensely and the last 5 listening with a stethoscope.

No-one wobbled that I saw ... I thought #4 did slightly out of the corner of my eye several times, but he never did while I was watching ... I'm pretty sure that was an optical illusion.

Stethoscope ... well the bell side gave me nothing ... the diaphragm I determined worked best if pressed more firmly against the egg, it reduced the background noise (movements against the egg and fingers). I thought I might be hearing kicking against the shell in #2, but it could have been anything really.

Warmth of ends ... well, #1 was quite cool on the pointy end, #5 was very warm. All the others were totally inconclusive somewhere in between.

Next time I do the rocker test, I will do it one egg at a time (total 60 minutes of egg watching!!??) and use an 'antennae' ie a rod laid across the top that theoretically will fall off if they wiggle just a little. I've heard of some people that do that.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Day 32, Egg 5 wiggles!

I just tried again, two at a time with light steel rods balanced on top (tricky that).

Egg #5 wobbled for me almost as soon as I had got the rod balanced and stable.

Not huge wobbles, not enough to knock the rod off or anything, but enough to cause it to tip and rock on top of the egg, just a little. He was definitely responding to my whistling too!

None of the others made so much as a twitch ... I had some Illusory "Was that a wiggle" on egg 4 again, but it never moved the rod so I don't think it was anything.

Egg 5 was the one that I thought was really warm on the end yesterday. I hope some of the others have chicks in them too ... slightly worried that the only one that seemed really definitely warm is also the only one wiggling now ... But maybe he's just the strongest embryo.

So, FYI, I have first wiggle in one egg out of 6, on day 32, incubating at 36C.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Ok to those using the wiggle test ... its really hard!!

An egg antennae such as I used above makes it easy to see for sure if it moves. But, the added weight of at least my steel rod makes it harder for the eggs to actually move at all (I think).

Day 33, no-one wiggled the antennae, not even egg 5, so I guess he's asleep. Probably so are the others!

Egg 6, just after I took the antennae off, looked like it kicked and wobbled just slightly. Several times. I was sure, at the time, that it moved. Quite positive in fact! But after a minute or so I began second guessing myself and now I'm not sure anymore.

I guess what I'm saying is don't despair if they don't wiggle around days 30-33 ... they're probably asleep, or too small to move the egg much at all. Even when they do wiggle you could miss it, or dismiss it as your own imagination ... or it could be your imagination!

 

[Ebarnes-21]

So my internet went down for a few days ...

In the meantime, eggs 1 and two definitely started to stink, 1 at 35 days, 2 at 39.

I blew them both out (now I'm looking at egg carving), 1 appeared not to have developed at all (infertile), 2 had started, but died around day 16.

In the meantime I've been back to the people who I bought them off. More info, and more eggs!

So first the info ... eggs 1-4 were from "Pair 1", who laid badly and stopped laying quickly.
So although egg 2 was fertile, they may not have been really breeding well.

Eggs 3 and 4 still don't smell or anything, but they don't stay warm like eggs 5-6 do either. I think they are empty, but still hope.

Egg 5 is now wiggling WILDLY. Very active lad this!!
Egg 6 is twitching slightly. She's alive but doesn't kick as hard as 5.
Sometimes I wonder about egg 4 still.

Now I have 4 more eggs, they are at 6 days now, they were already 4 days incubated by the male when I got them (I took the incubator there).

Interestingly, the eggs from under the male are a good 2+ degrees C lower than the incubator. I would guess around 33C.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Well I'm on day 47. The last week really drags on ... I've checked the date three times today only!

Today I checked with the stethoscope again. I thought I heard a heart beat in egg 5, in fact I was certain, until I checked egg 4 who I'm 99% certain is empty, and heard the same thing.

However, I must say it is hard to use a stethoscope this late because egg 5 and 6 were rocking and rolling so hard they were moving the egg against the stethoscope all the time.

In hindsight, the change of tone in eggs 1 and 3 early on was certainly a sign of rottenness. Egg 3 is still in there because he hasn't smelled and I'm not confident enough to empty him out, but he's never moved either.

If you're not certain an egg has moved, it probably hasn't. 4 pretty clearly isn't moving now.

Egg 5 is much stronger kick-wise than 6, 6 just twitches, 5 almost jumps ... which is strange to see in an egg.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

OK Exciting New Method!!

An accurate temperature test reveals body heat in fertile Emu eggs by day 27, probably earlier.

I used a good quality 2-mode infra red thermometer like this one:
http://www.baby4you.co.nz/shop/New+...e+design+from+Jumper.html?id=ddvf7jdD&mv_pc=s

This allows you to rest the head of the thermometer on the egg shell and take an instant temperature reading of the actual egg temperature with good accuracy.

Please note: This only works if your eggs vs. incubator arrangement has all the eggs warmed to the same degree! If one side of your incubator is warmer than the other it will be very hard. It also helps if your incubator produces more heat on the top of the egg ... mine is a single level, fan forced, with the heat and fan at the top, so the top of the egg is warmer than the bottom. This is like natural incubation.

Now the method. All temperatures in degrees centigrade (C).
Open your incubator and quickly take a temperature reading from the tops and undersides of each egg. Write these down and note any differences. Take the eggs out and lay them all on a flat surface. Wait 5 minutes. Take top and bottom temps again.

Now compare them all. All the eggs should be more or less the same temperature on top at the first reading. Within about 0.3C anyway.

Fertile eggs will be slightly warmer (Perhaps 0.5C or more) underneath at the first reading as compared to infertile eggs.

At the second reading, infertile eggs will have lost more temperature than fertile ones. Fertile eggs should only have lost about 2.5C. Infertile eggs will have lost significantly more.

The bottom reading is particularly interesting after the cooling period, as infertile eggs will be dropping temperature fast on the underside (several degrees) whereas fertile eggs only lose about 3 degrees as compared to the initial reading.

Later the difference becomes even easier to determine. I am now at day 34, and I simply check the temp top and bottom when I open the incubator. The fertile eggs are almost the same temperature (only 0.2-0.4C difference) at the botttom as at the top. The fetal body heat is carrying right through.

The infertile eggs are 1-2C lower at the bottom as compared to the top.

This method obviously works on the same principal as the hand-feel for warmth on the pointy end as opposed to the bubble end, but because it uses a digital temperature reading it is more accurate and can be used earlier.

I have confirmed it at day 27 so far: I suspect it can be used earlier still.
I would suggest that you take the top and bottom temperatures of the eggs within the first few days and record them. Using this as a baseline may help detect changes (eg bottoms of eggs slightly warmer) much earlier than just trying to compare eggs to other eggs.
I also have eggs at 10 days, but it doesn't seem to show anything with those yet. I did not take a baseline however. I will keep trying every few days and update this thread when I have a result.

Incidentally, this method works as a confirmation of life or death for late term eggs of other species too, even those that can be candled. For instance I have 2 goose eggs due in 2 days, they are looking a little late, I candled them yesterday and they were kicking, today one does not move ... I couldn't be sure if it was asleep or dead ... but comparing the temperature of the live to the still one after 5 minutes showed me a 2.8C drop in temperature on the still fetus ... which by that I assume is dead.

 

[AlishaRichard]

I used a straw to balance on the emu eggs so it is easier to see movement. The straw fell off of a few of the eggs.

 

[Erka97]

Ebarnes, I am now testing your method using my three eggs all on day 23. I do not know if two of them are fertile, but I do know that the third [also much larger and stored in a different incubator] is not fertile due to the fact that it smells horrible and occasionally leaks fluid [I'll be blowing it out after this little experiment]
I test their temperature to start, which as predicted is somewhere between 93-98 degrees in different spots on the egg [I doubt the accuracy of my thermometer sometimes, but then again it may also be an incubator issue since I'm using a lab incubator for bacteria for the good eggs at present and another incubator with known temp issues to store the dead egg.] The good eggs are warmer on their smaller ends and on top at this stage. The bad egg was cooler at about 90 degrees, so I turned the temp up in that incubator for subsequent experiments. I then took their temperatures every five minutes outside the incubator for ten minutes before returning to the incubators. Bad egg seemed to lose most uniformly, but only by a few degrees. The good eggs all lost more degrees, but there was more of a pattern to it; big end lost the most, and there was a spot on each egg that remained a degree or more warmer. I hope this suggests the chick location, although it might be the area of least heat loss since it's the area that should be occupied by egg material rather than air and which is not in contact with the floor.
It's still early, so I plan on doing this daily until I start seeing wiggles [it should also help air out my still air bacterial incubator I currently have the good eggs in] and I will post the results [hopefully more exact] here as I do so.

 

[AlishaRichard]

Ebarnes, I am now testing your method using my three eggs all on day 23. I do not know if two of them are fertile, but I do know that the third [also much larger and stored in a different incubator] is not fertile due to the fact that it smells horrible and occasionally leaks fluid [I'll be blowing it out after this little experiment]
I test their temperature to start, which as predicted is somewhere between 93-98 degrees in different spots on the egg [I doubt the accuracy of my thermometer sometimes, but then again it may also be an incubator issue since I'm using a lab incubator for bacteria for the good eggs at present and another incubator with known temp issues to store the dead egg.] The good eggs are warmer on their smaller ends and on top at this stage. The bad egg was cooler at about 90 degrees, so I turned the temp up in that incubator for subsequent experiments. I then took their temperatures every five minutes outside the incubator for ten minutes before returning to the incubators. Bad egg seemed to lose most uniformly, but only by a few degrees. The good eggs all lost more degrees, but there was more of a pattern to it; big end lost the most, and there was a spot on each egg that remained a degree or more warmer. I hope this suggests the chick location, although it might be the area of least heat loss since it's the area that should be occupied by egg material rather than air and which is not in contact with the floor.
It's still early, so I plan on doing this daily until I start seeing wiggles [it should also help air out my still air bacterial incubator I currently have the good eggs in] and I will post the results [hopefully more exact] here as I do so.

I am wondering if gas in a bad egg would produce any heat? Be careful I did this and it exploded when moving it around. lol I sware I can smell it a year later. I live experiments. Good luck.