Michigan

[Opa]

Good morning Michigan chicken folks. Christmas is close upon us and I hope everyone has a safe joyous Yule time. Christmas eve has always been our day of celebration. Rather than chance an argument or hurt feelings I always allowed my three sons to go the their mother's on Xmas day. Now, continuing that tradition works out well for everyone. It allows married children to not have to choose or alternate who they will spend the holiday with.

Only one of my sons is still in Michigan. He and Amy will be here later today as well as Hope's two sons and their families. We decided years ago that we only buy presents for the grand kids and just spending the holiday together is the important thing. We've even eliminated fixing a big meal and have gone instead to a huge hor d'oeuvre selection of fruit, vegetables and dip, meatballs, wrapped smokie links, and a variety of sausages, cheeses and crackers. That way we can sit around, visit, and watch the excitement of grand kids build as they puzzle over what awaits them under the tree.

The Michigan thread continues to grow in both members and posts. It is a rare and wonderful thing in which we have been able to share personal anecdotes, poultry information and opinions, and even disagree occasionally while avoiding the rancor that so often infects these types of forums. This truly is a gift that we all get to share. Happy holidays all.

Yaz, I wear my curmudgeon title with pride.

 

[Mom 2em All]

Merry Christmas Eve, everyone!

RAZ- found blood on my waterer this morning. Thought of you. hahaha. Literally, I said, "Oh this is blood. Gotta mention it to Raz-" then my thoughts went, "Who is bleeding?"
Everyone looks okay to me. I figure someone got too close to Mama Hen and her chicks, and had a Tasmanian Devil Silkie attack them.

Last minute stuff to be done before this afternoon. My daughter did a great job cleaning the house yesterday, but still needs touched up. Presents need to be wrapped. I am feeling much better, but now Tiffany has my symptoms. I had the dr call in a prescription yesterday for her- so hopefully it wont kick her butt as much as it did mine.

Think we will have any snow for tomorrow morning?

 

[RBahmer]

Good morning everyone. This chicken discussion ya'all are having is something I refuse to comment on as I know I would make a lot of enemies on this site if I did. I have my own opinions and I will keep them to myself.
With that said I want to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a safe one. Will go to midnight Mass tonight then off to my son and daughter in laws tomorrow. My daughter in law got mad at something 6 months ago and wouldn't speak to me or any of my family over something that she imagined. She is Bi-Polar and out of the blue she called me last night and was crying and apologized and begged for us to come to dinner tomorrow. I love my daughter in law like she is my own daughter and so I finally agreed to go. I am so happy things finally worked out.
Peace to all.

 

[Mom 2em All]

Rbahmer-

that is wonderful about your daughter-in-law! So wonderful that you can all share the holiday together with renewed sense of family. I only wish the same for us here. I think in my subconscious, I am expecting my brother to just pull up like every year- and that they will all be here for Christmas...just like we are supposed to be.
I think that is what is keeping me from 'losing it'. Fooling myself.

Merry Christmas.

Sam-
I assume you shall be leaving smoked chicken out for Santa this year?

 

[RBahmer]

Quote:
Mom- I truly hope your brother surprises you. There were 3 of us kids in my family and I am extremely close to my sister. Years ago, and I mean years ago, my sister and my brother had a disagreement over some silly thing that didn't really amount to nothing. We went over 20 years not being a family on holidays because they refused to be in the same house together. Finally after YEARS of my begging each other and trying to make things right they finally made up ( my sister is terrible about forgiveness) and before we could have our first Christmas together as a family, in September of that year my brother was murdered. So I hope you and your brother can get together. Petty arguments mean nothing to a bond with a family member.

 

[ChicwannaB]

Found a discarded file cabinet thingie on the roadside in someones burn pile, so stuffed it in my truck and have made another nest box out of it.

Im on day 10 of my first incubation, at least nothing has begun to stink

I am very Merry...yesterday I had a 9 egg day!! Proving more of my girls are doing their job.

A lady stopped who had previously bought 2 dozen eggs from me for the first time. She said they loved them and she did alot of baking, so she bought another dozen.

My clientele is growing.

Y'all have a good whatever you celebrate, Im baking my DH a birthday cake today because his is Dec 25th. toodles

 

[KrisRose]

Quote:
lol This is the same thing I said you just used alot more words.
I never referred to building resistance by keeping sickly birds who dont recover. But breeding birds that do recover and ones that dont get sick at all. Your "natural resistance " paragragh. Old timers didnt cull their entire flocks. If they found them they culled the ones that were poorly and not up to snuff. Probably ate em. The survivors that never got ill or recovered were the ones producing the next hatch. Why do I say "found"? Cause on those farms the chickens free ranged everywere. If they got sick they either recover or died in the bushes.
But now when people talk about diseases they refer to culling their entire flock.
Again, is this doing chickendom any favors? Not only having these diseases spread by wild birds but more and more folks are getting chickens.
Having a closed flock will be next to impossible unless you are a chicken farmer with huge sheds to lock them in.
As you pointed out, we are the offspring of survivors. Our chickens should continuie to be the offspring of survivors.
I also am a supporter of vaccines. One of the more natural ways we can jump start the immune system against cocci and mareks.
AGAIN, this is JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION which I am entitled too and do not jump on me for it.

I'm sorry. I don't think I articulated myself very well. We are absolutely not saying the same thing I am specifically responding to the implication that not culling chickens who have survived disease will somehow lead to resistance in the greater chicken population.

This part:

I am not sure that culling a chicken that has survived a disease is doing Ckickendom any favors. In other words- How can we produce chickens resistance to these diseases if we cull them?

And then this in the newer response:

But breeding birds that do recover and ones that dont get sick at all. Your "natural resistance " paragragh.

Birds that recover from disease do not have natural resistance; they have exposure resistance. As I explained above there is a big difference. The very fact that they fell ill to begin with -- thus having to recover -- demonstrates that they do not possess natural resistance. As I explained above, exposure resistance cannot be bred into future generations. The theory simply doesn't translate into reality. It does not work that way. It does work that way for chickens that never fall ill despite exposure to pathogens that would make illness likely. We ARE talking the same thing there, I think.

And, just for clarity's sake, when I say "sickly" I don't mean birds who are consistently or repeatedly ill, but simply those who are susceptible to illness. Probably not the best terminology on my part, best I could think of at the time though.

As to the old timers argument, it's the same as what I responded earlier to the other poster -- sorry, drawing a blank on the name right now -- yes, it's true that old timers didn't cull entire flocks and it's true that some of the best flock management goes back to these days but as I said before the danger comes when you blindly combine modern convenience and technology with old time theory. Old Timers didn't cull entire flocks, but they also didn't coddle sick chickens. How many times in this thread alone have we talked about someone who has an ill chicken in the house or in an "ICU" of some sort? Often with added heat, modern medicines being employed, special diets being offered, etc. We've even had people hand and force feeding chickens to keep them alive. Many times these chickens recover, it's a marvel of our modern times and it's great that people don't have to lose beloved pets, but it renders the flock management of our ancestors absolutely irrelevant.

So yes, if you want to leave your chickens to their devices if they fall ill, offer absolutely no extra supportive care or treatment and then breed the survivors of illness for the sake of capitalizing on the hardiness in recoverability we could certainly make a fair argument that that is doing something for "chickendom"; breeding chickens who survive illness with the incredible amounts of supportive care afforded them by our modern times however, is not in any way contributing to greater resistance or hardiness in subsequent generations.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and as I said before I am not trying to jump all over you, but some of what you're proposing just plain doesn't work biologically. It's definitely not personal, I just think it'd be wrong not to respond with the other side of things especially with how many people read and take most of their education from here -- many without ever even responding to ask questions themselves.​

I edited this a few times because it is hard to respond to an attack without attacking back.
I stand by my opinion. These diseases are not going away. Survivors and healthly chickens after an infection can benefit the future of the flock.

Merry Christmas everybody.​

 

[babigyrl22]

Happy Christmas Eve!

My girls (and boys) ventured out into the snow this morning searching for scratch.

Maybe they are feeling the Christmas Spirit too. I hope everyone has a most wonderful holiday!


Off to go and work out now...gotta work off all these cookies! :: hugs to everyone ::

Jaime

 

[chicken grandma]

RBahmer - I think we should all give our opinions because we are a forum and we contribute to each others ability to raise healthy chickens. And heal sick ones and prevent disease. I appreciate any new perspectives.

Krisrose - I love to hear all the ideas, especially ones that differ.
Discussions take many people. I don't see any one persons contributions as more valuable than anothers. I think we all give whatever we can.

I spent 8 years in Hawaii raising chickens. I had no infectious disease at all in my flock there and did not hear of any who did. I'm sure there was some but I did not hear of it. Of course they are so strict on what animals you can bring into Hawaii that makes a huge difference. My chickens in that state easily lived to be 5 years without predator attacks, Winters, illness. We did have more recurrance of tapeworm, round worms and mites because of the warm climate.

What was different about having chickens in Michigan is all the illness in the flocks and like I said, this year alone I was sold chicks with Cocci, offered a hen from a flock with Mareks and then bought two chicks and ended up putting my small flock down from E.Coli in the respiratory tract. So I am never mad or insulted and don't mean to insult. I just wonder if we could ever come up with a way to stop the spread of disease in backyard flocks.

 

[1muttsfan]

Quote:
What?! No smoked chicken?

I have been gifted for christmas with 2 extra dogs visiting for the weekend. Fortunately my 2 dogs are used to me bringing anything and everything living into the house. And those 2 dogs seem to be getting along ok also. My cats also seem to have adjusted to having two large strange dogs wandering around. This is what you get when you stay home christmas and all of your friends go out of town. At least there won't be any arguing over which football game to watch, and no one is fussy about the food!