Michigan

[NovaAman]

All the ridicule I've been reading says that it is an end to children working for their families, the 4 H program/FFA, and the arm of commercial agribusiness crushing anyone who assists their fellow farmers in the community. I've yet to read a level headed article on the subject and what I did get a chance to read included statements like "that fake American Obama", "attack on real Americans", "Obummer", etc. I guess I'm missing the nuances between a family farm and the family farm because I don't see how it could stop me from working on, say, my Uncle's farm as a 10 year old as part of my chores or family obligation.

I am not blaming Obama on this one... I do not like the mans policies, but I am not blaming him for this one. If this were one of HIS policies, you bet your bottom that there'd be even more stink.

 

[NovaAman]

Got a weird question, I tried a search but no real answer to my question...

If my dumby duck lays her egg in the pool, And I think it may have been there for a day at the most, Is it still edible?

 

[Opa]

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I haven't gotten so old that I have forgotten any of those skills and probably know some you have never heard of, however, not wanting to offend anyone's sensibilities I thought we shouldn't discuss them.

 

[Olive Hill]

All the ridicule I've been reading says that it is an end to children working for their families, the 4 H program/FFA, and the arm of commercial agribusiness crushing anyone who assists their fellow farmers in the community. I've yet to read a level headed article on the subject and what I did get a chance to read included statements like "that fake American Obama", "attack on real Americans", "Obummer", etc. I guess I'm missing the nuances between a family farm and the family farm because I don't see how it could stop me from working on, say, my Uncle's farm as a 10 year old as part of my chores or family obligation.

Sounds to me like you need to rethink the source of your news and information.

The only exemption provided for familial employment is that of a child to his/her parent or a person acting as that child's parent. Your uncle does not qualify. The difference between their family farm and a family farm is the relationship between the owner/operator and the worker. I run a family farm, the neighbor boy who helps us gather and pack chickens for butcher every summer however cannot be covered under the familial exemption because this is not his family farm. Similarly, my nephew cannot come here and help me as he grows up because he is not my child.

It effects the 4-H / FFA programs because it eliminates student-learner exemptions from current ag labor laws.

It has nothing to do with agribusiness. Most agricultural business owners -- of which 98% are family farm owners, an inconvenient truth those who like to point the finger do not often admit -- are staunchly opposed to the measures and have been voicing that opposition for months.

ETA: For clarification, because I see on a re-read that you said "as a 10 year old", hiring children at that age is already illegal. This affects the hiring of older children/youth only -- 14+ yo, specifically. If you're talking about going out and collecting the eggs for no compensation during a summer on some Uncle's farm, yes, fine, you can still do that. But the grand majority of farm work is not completed by weekender suburban kids who are happy to drive the tractor without pay.

 

[NovaAman]

I do not have a family farm per-say, but I am opposed because of the simple fact that working in the corn fields, driving the machine the did the tassel cutting... Well today, kids will not be able to do that... and being that "THAT" was my first job, my first real paycheck, did teach ME a valuable lesson. WORKING EARNS MONEY. WORKING enabled me to buy the clothes that I wanted, not the clothes that my dad willing to pay for. WORKING put gas in my moped when I went back to school, because my dad would not. WORKING got me all those little things that some kids take for granted now... as if they were entitled to it. I had to work to buy it. I appreciated it more because I EARNED IT.

I guess, I am opposed, because farm work taught me a worth ethic that I think a lot of youngers are missing out on now days.

 

[RBahmer]

Well, while I was out and about today, driving around, chucking garbage into little plastic tubes, and throwing trash in driveways... I heard on the radio some caca about child labor and farms... Seems that big G is trying to pass laws that will prohibit kids from doing a lot of things on the family farm that they used to. It could also have effects on 4-H. WHY? Because it has been decided that it is not safe for any one under the age of 18 to do farm work. This does not include the picking of berries, veggies...ect... by hand... BUT if it requires the use of any farm machine... NOPE. This includes milking cow, getting cows to the cow shed, sheep, pigs, well hell, all live stock... Because kids on the farm are not really able to do such things... Its a hazzard, and those jobs should be done by adults who, for all intents and purposes need the jobs... OH WAIT! The average farmer is now in his/her 50s.

I am sorry, but when I was a kid, I did the corn de-tassel job. Would get up at 5 am, get on the bus by 5:45, and usually be out to what ever field we were working on by 6:30. I started that at 13. Did it for 3 summers. But, I didn't learn anything. Nope.. I was to young to learn the value of that pay check I earned. To young to understand what I was really doing... Give me a friggin break. The best times for kids to learn farm work is the precise age that they don't want to have kids doing it. Not even with a permit.

What is this going to do to the 4H kids? Those who show cows/steers/sheep/goats/pigs? They will no longer be able to be on the farm working with these animals, because it is to dangerous for them. Not all kids want to work with a chicken for 4H.

We would go to visit family in Canada... and they had the milk in plastic bags. My Granda used to deliver milk for Baremans here in Holland both before and after WW2. I have a laundry shoot. LOVE IT! Had one at the old house as well. Not the type where it slides down, but just a hole in the wall, with a little door, and a strait drop. Here, its a hole in the floor in my bathroom under the sink and vanity. The kids think its great, and I am waiting for one of them to get a brilliant idea and try and go down and land on the shelf over the dryer that catches the clothes.

I gotta get stuff done... been a long long day.

When my kids were young they were out milking cows and feeding bottle lambs before AND after school.

 

[ladyfeather]

The sources I read were thrown up on Facebook by some of the more rabid politicos people know. The first I heard of it was a question on a Facebook board: "They are disbanding 4-H?" and we checked it out. This is what we read: http://www.dol.gov/whd/CL/truthNPRM.htm and from that it didn't/doesn't sound like it will really change the face of those working on a farm. My example of the work on Uncle's farm is for the instance where it is required by family obligations. Its expected for us to work for and assist anyone when they ask whether we are compensated or not in my family. I can't see that as falling under prohibition under the new regs but it could be there. Fact 3 on that sheet I posted says that it won't affect FFA or 4-H because the work with a 4-H animal isn't employment and they can still go to the markets/fairs.

As for your nephew you could employ him over age of 12 as long as it is outside of school hours with parental permission and non hazardous, agricultural work.

I've never worked on a farm so I'm not versed in how young kids start doing things like operating a tractor, thresher, etc.

ETA:

From reading the information from the WHD it is not finalized and it can/will be adjusted as they take public comments into consideration. Considering how this could adversely affect the agricultural work force it is something people may want to write the decision makers about and keep an open dialogue about. There are more and more people like myself who have never experienced the benefits of being a farm raised kid entering the small farm community in one way or another.

 

[Olive Hill]

The sources I read were thrown up on Facebook by some of the more rabid politicos people know. The first I heard of it was a question on a Facebook board: "They are disbanding 4-H?" and we checked it out. This is what we read: http://www.dol.gov/whd/CL/truthNPRM.htm and from that it didn't/doesn't sound like it will really change the face of those working on a farm. My example of the work on Uncle's farm is for the instance where it is required by family obligations. Its expected for us to work for and assist anyone when they ask whether we are compensated or not in my family. I can't see that as falling under prohibition under the new regs but it could be there. Fact 3 on that sheet I posted says that it won't affect FFA or 4-H because the work with a 4-H animal isn't employment and they can still go to the markets/fairs.

As for your nephew you could employ him over age of 12 as long as it is outside of school hours with parental permission and non hazardous, agricultural work.

I've never worked on a farm so I'm not versed in how young kids start doing things like operating a tractor, thresher, etc.

Ohhh, man. That was a good one. Have you considered stand up?

Seriously though, you may want to acquaint yourself with what is defined as "hazardous". I'll give you a hint: there's not much left.

 

[taprock]

This post will end up a bit long - so just warning you now.
I have been working on an idea for the past few months. What I want to do is introduce kids to chickens . I wrote a story, illustrated it and it's being printed for me. I want to go to schools, libraries, preschool, daycare etc., read them the book and introduce them to chickens by taking some of my small bantams that I hatched specifically for this purpose. Right now I have two interested parties. I have also been talking with The Delta Societie's Pet Partners on having a chicken certified for Animal Assisted Activities. I was assured by someone on the National Advisory Board that although they are not on the accepted list, if they can be trained to pass their test they would certify one. So anyway I would like to post my story and get some feedback. I think I will leave it up for a day and then edit it out. Hey if people will steal diapers..... not meaning you Michigan folks but we do have lots of guests. I'm just trying to think ahead what kind of questions I will have to field with kids and reactions to be prepared for.

PM me if you are still interested.


Thanks for any input, I get so nervous sharing my work.

 

[EeyoreD]

Ohhh, man. That was a good one. Have you considered stand up?

Seriously though, you may want to acquaint yourself with what is defined as "hazardous". I'll give you a hint: there's not much left.

I just looked it up and yep, pretty much everything. Course what I found was the old rules that have been in effect since 2008. These also seem to only apply to children or the owner/operator or student learners. So, unless I'm reading this wrong, the whole nephew/neighbor thing is right out already.



http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs40.htm
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