Middle Ages Poultry question

[Silvester]

I'm currently in between assembling instructions on how to do wicker/willow baskets so I can reproduce the market cages from the renaissance paintings and taking a class this coming weekend on medieval joinery from a friend who is a master cabinet maker so I can recreate the pigeon basket style market cages...


Also have three wooden practice swords drying after staining them yesterday, but that is an entirely different project...

 

[chickwhispers]

Wow! That sounds awesome and fun! When your projects are finished please post some pictures! I would love to make one of those old style poultry baskets. That would be so cool . Enjoy your class!

 

[Silvester]

Here's part of an e-mail I received from David Scrivener:

~~First I suggest you buy (eBay or Amazon you can read sample pages on Amazon) or borrow a copy of my books 'Rare Poultry Breeds' and 'Popular Poultry Breeds' for comprehensive history of chicken breeds info. I could sell you copies, but postage UK>US would probably be high, so perhaps best to buy them in US.

Most Medieval chickens would have been quite small (but not bantams) as they had to forage for their own food (peasants couldn't spare wheat/barley/oats for chicken feed) and escape predators. I'm not sure which of the current breeds which would most closely represent them now are available in the US. Most I'm thinking of are very much still European only, such as Ardenner, Drentse, Friesian, Groningers and Thuringians. Perhaps in the US the smaller strains of fighting Pit Game would be your nearest available. For your keeping and public display purposes, it might be best to cross Pit Game with something a bit more docile, some of the larger bantam breeds perhaps, such as Plymouth Rocks or Sussex.

Domestic ducks were medium size, bigger than wild ducks, but smaller than the heavy breeds are today or have been for the past century. Mostly in plumage colours like wild mallards, or variations, such as the dilute patterns of Abacot Rangers or Silver Appleyards.

As for pens, they didn't generally have any. Country people often lived in 'medieval long houses' (Google it), where people lived with their livestock. This got even more squalid with ducks, as was found in England about 1870, when Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire (centre of the duck industry supplying London markets) appointed its first public health inspector. I guess you remember some of the squalid scenes in TV news from the far east when bird flu first became a major scare. It was the same in parts of Europe until only 150 years ago. Aylesbury public library published a book about their local duck breed history years ago - I don't know if they still stock it.

Also Google 'poultry higgler crate' for the transport crates which poorer dealers carried birds to markets on their back, walking miles to sell a few birds. Chicken and ducks were luxury food items. Of course, better off higglers would have had a horse & cart. One of my ancestors was one of them in the early 19th century. He lived at Amersham, a town halfway between London (the size London was then - Amersham is virtually a London suburb now) and Aylesbury. Each cart load of ducks was a two day operation, day one up to Aylesbury to buy them, day two down to London to sell them.

There were some specialist table chicken producers, mostly in rural areas near big cities. In England, in the counties of Kent, Sussex and Surrey to the south of London. I guess you know something of the history of the Dorking breed, although I made it a lot clearer in Popular Poultry Breeds. These table birds were surgically castrated, 'caponised', and force fed while being housed in wooden cages. So much for the 'good old days'!




David also referred me to http://www.chickenco-op.net/home where he is assisting some of the grad students with their research.

 

[Silvester]

I received an e-mail back from Germany this morning:

Thank you for your email of 27 February 2014 , which is out at us at the number 2014022710000222 . You ask for chicken and duck stance in the Middle Ages and ancient races which still exist today.

For your questions I want to give you the following advice :
Society for the Conservation of Old and Endangered Livestock Breeds (GEH ) : The GEH is committed to the preservation of rare breeds . You could also have knowledge about past races : http://www.g-e-h.de/geh/index.php/impressum

Under the menu item you will find breed descriptions breed descriptions for existing , endangered breeds of chickens , ducks, geese and turkeys : http://www.geh.de/geh/index.php/rassebeschreibungen

Also note the links provided : http://www.g-e-h.de/geh/index.php/links

German Bund breed poultry ( BDRG )
Also the BDRG could eventually have knowledge about ancient races .
http://www.bdrg.de/
http://tgrdeu.genres.de/default/org...t/detail/64E99529-241F-4103-E040-A8C0286E7FE6

Information and Coordination Centre for Biological Diversity (IBV )
Information on biological diversity and genetic resources can also be found at IBV , which is housed at the Federal Agency for Agriculture and Food ( BLE) . Again note the additional links .
Biodiversity / Genetic Resources
http://www.ble.de/DE/04_Programme/02_BiologischeVielfalt/BiologischeVielfalt.html

National Programme animal genetic resources
http://www.ble.de/DE/04_Programme/02_BiologischeVielfalt/03_Tiere/NatFachprogrammTiere_node.html

Biodiversity / Genetic Resources: International cooperation
http://www.ble.de/DE/05_Internation...lt/BiologischeVielfaltInternational_node.html

Information System Genetic Resources
http://www.genres.de/haus-und-nutztiere/
http://www.genres.de/service/

Central Documentation of Animal Genetic Resources in Germany
This database provides an overview of all bred in Germany breeds of each species : http://tgrdeu.genres.de/hausundnutztiere/index

European Regional Focal Point for Animal Genetic Resources ( ERFP )
http://www.rfp-europe.org/

Your questions about transport , I have not understood. For a better understanding you can be happy again send in English. I hope I could help you with this.

Sincerely yours In order
C. Schäfer
( Verbraucherlotsin )

Consumer guide - citizens to information from the Federal Ministry of Food and Agriculture in the Federal Agency for Agriculture and Food
Unit 424
Deichmanns Aue 29
53179 Bonn
Phone: 0228-24 25 26 27
E -mail : [email protected]
Internet: www.verbraucherlotse.de

 

[Talithahorse]

I just found this thread as I was trying to find out some information about chicken breeds of the middle ages. As a former member of the SCA I spent many years tracking down research on horses. You are headed in the right direction. I also found working backwards on the breeds as well as looking at what affects them (for example access to good forage can increase a horses final height by up to 4 inches or one hand.) This will allow you to determine what the ancestor may have looked like during period. I also read extensively looking for first hand descriptions of the horses and then compared them with primitive breeds. I compared that with the archeological evidence of the animals (measurements of horse skulls, length of legbones, etc) to come up with an estimate of the average height of the horses in the middle ages). It was a fun an fascinating ride. Keep good notes and organize it as you go. I wish I still had all of my research organized and not spread out.

BTW I have a few Dorkings and love the breed. I think they are bigger now then they were in Roman times and would love to know the details of how they were back then (versus the SOP). I am more interested in a period bird, then a "perfect" bird. Good luck with your research.

Shannan aka Talitha

 

[boskelli1571]

I just found this thread as I was trying to find out some information about chicken breeds of the middle ages. As a former member of the SCA I spent many years tracking down research on horses. You are headed in the right direction. I also found working backwards on the breeds as well as looking at what affects them (for example access to good forage can increase a horses final height by up to 4 inches or one hand.) This will allow you to determine what the ancestor may have looked like during period. I also read extensively looking for first hand descriptions of the horses and then compared them with primitive breeds. I compared that with the archeological evidence of the animals (measurements of horse skulls, length of legbones, etc) to come up with an estimate of the average height of the horses in the middle ages). It was a fun an fascinating ride. Keep good notes and organize it as you go. I wish I still had all of my research organized and not spread out.

BTW I have a few Dorkings and love the breed. I think they are bigger now then they were in Roman times and would love to know the details of how they were back then (versus the SOP). I am more interested in a period bird, then a "perfect" bird. Good luck with your research.

Shannan aka Talitha

I'm glad this thread re-surfaced! In the recent copy of Practical Poultry, there is a good article on chickens in England during Roman times. For more info go to: www.scicultchickens.org

 

[Talithahorse]

great article.