Migratory Birds and the Law

[destinduck]

Great discussion. I know how everyone feels about hawks and getting birds killed. But bear foot farm said it best whether you like it or not. Remember this, always there is whats right and whats wrong, then there is THE LAW. We all know who loved BUSH too.

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[OkieChickenDad]

Quote:
I DO know a family, that wont post it here and I wont name the name. I hunt, a lot...and I became buds with a couple that own a farm/lease where you can hunt upland game birds. They have a State license to operate year round hunts with place & shoot birds as well as wild birds during season. It is a commercial enterprise and they have applied for and received permits to kill hawks during years when the numbers are high.

Also when I hear back from the Department Of Wildlife I will post it.

 

[OkieChickenDad]

Quote:
Feel free to show the part of the treaty that allows that.

You've seen the parts that state it's illegal

My point is that if you go through the proper channels, you CAN get depredation permits for hawks. Some here keep riding the Federal angle like a renetd mule...the FEDS even say you can with a permit. Who do you think issues THAT permit? Obama? No it will be your local Wildlife Department.

I already stated all that earlier. See Post 36
If it were simply "legal", you wouldn't have to get a permit beforehand
It will be the US FWS, the ONLY agency that has the authority to issue the permit.

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-79.pdf​

Ok give me an example of something you consider legal that you DONT need a license or a permit for...and if you say breathing I will lock myself out of this thread

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Ok give me an example of something you consider legal that you DONT need a license or a permit for...and if you say breathing I will lock myself out of this thread

I'm waiting for you to show me where in the Migratory Bird Treaty it allows states to make up their own laws.

Until then, you've shown nothing that backs your claims

Your question has little to do with the actual FACTS of the discussion.​

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

do you know of anyone who has been able to get the special permit? I would like anyone who has gotten the permit to please post and indicate that they have done so. They are rarely if ever awarded. edited to add that this is not necesssarily a bad thing.

I know of some local catfish farms that have permits to shoot Herons and occasionally Ospreys.

Its still a FEDERAL permit​

 

[oswegoscott]

Quote:
Federal law covers the entire US.

Kill kil the hawks you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's legal

game wardens are licensed police officers who may arrest and detain individuals for wildlife violations

How is that different than what I stated?​

Wow...Is your last name Pelosi? look, Federal laws regarding animal species are written so that they can and are able to be amended by the states, if the states deem it so. Do you realize the manpower needed for the feds to establish, maintain and enforce laws at the local level?...Or would it be more likely that the laws are written to allow states, who conduct their own environmental studies, who train and place their own law enforcement agents, to amend them to fit the current ever changing needs of a local eco-system(s)? Please stop...you're killing me Smalls.

States may amend Federal Wildlife laws ONLY to make them MORE stringent--NOT to alter the basic premise of the law

 

[Gray Ghost]

As a lawyer I can say there are some posters in this thread who would have flunked out of law school.

Let me help out a little:

1. An action is legal unless a statute specifically declares it illegal.

2. If a statute says an action is illegal unless a permit is obtained, then if you do that thing without a permit, it is illegal.

3. If regulations are promulgated under a statute, those regulations have the same force as the statute.

4. We live under a system of dual soverignty. Therefore, we are required to obey both Federal and state laws, which sometimes address the same or related subjects.

5. If a state statute conflicts with a Federal statute, the doctrine of federal preemption means that the Federal statute will govern. So, for example, if a Federal statute, such as the Migratory Bird Act, says you cannot kill or harass migratory birds without a permit, and a state statute says you can kill them if they are attacking your chickens, then the Federal statute will govern. In practical terms this means you can be prosecuted under Federal law if you kill a migratory bird protected under the statute, without a permit.

6. The date of enactment of a state statute is irrelevant in determining whether it is pre-empted by Federal law. A state cannot simply pre-empt Federal law by passing a contradictory statute, after the passage of a Federal statute.

7. A state statute which is pre-empted by a Federal law may remain codified in the state statute books. There is no system or requirement that such state statutes be repealed or removed from the books. Note: this is one reason why being a lawyer is hard -- you can't just read a statute and assume it applies as written 100% of the time. You have to research the history of the statute and related court cases to determine if it has been superseded or somehow modified.

8. Federal statutes sometimes delegate their enforcement in part to state law enforcement officers. Thus state Fish and Game officers (who are law enforcement officers just like the local police or the state police) can, and sometimes do, enforce Federal fish and game laws.

9. A Federal statute may permit states to enact additional, more stringent or more detailed, regulation on the same subject. But it would be very unusual for Congress to pass a Federal statute which allowed states to opt out of -- or modify to make less stringent -- the Federal statute. (State laws which allow hunting of certain migratory bird species such as ducks and geese are permitted under the Migratory Bird Act, but only within certain limits. For example, it's the regulations under the Migratory Bird Act which limit Wisconsin's duck season to 60 days in length.)

10. Just because you can get away with something does not mean it's legal. Just because local law enforcement officials (such as perhaps in a rural area) choose not to enforce certain laws, does not make it legal to violate those laws.

11. Not all laws make sense to all people. But if you choose to violate the law, you risk the consequences. In the case of an intentional violation of the Migratory Bird Act, those consequences can be severe.

12. Federal law enforcement officials are not known for being forgiving or letting things slide.

13. Species which do not migrate and which are not endangered are typically not subject to Federal regulation or protection. Examples include quail, deer and black bears.

 

[WoodlandWoman]

Thank you so much for clarifying so many of the issues in this thread. I appreciate you taking the time to type all of that information out.