Mille Cochin Info

[WestKnollAmy]

Well, it isn't working that way in my breeding pens but then I have different breeding lines. Since I started mine from basically scratch and added Mottled I suppose my mileage will vary.
I did add a roo along the way for one breeding season and got some different birds popping out but I needed a bit of blood diversity.

My buffs are usually girls but that is what I would expect with the genetics I have in place. My boys from the same breeding are a red color with some black, not usually chevrons, though.

I have had mahogany in boys and girls equally and they always lack black and are not used again in my MFC breeding program but do nicely in my Frizzles and project Calico pen. I don't want mahogany in my MFC lines anyhow.

The oranges or vermillions are the better marked birds because this is the most correct color and genetically the way to make the best MFC. Those genes line up in the DNA so much better.

I, personally, have never had browns but I never bred in that base color and probably why I am having so much difficulty getting the Calicos to pop out. My Calico breeding pen takes a back seat to most of my other breeding pens.

My buffs do not lighten with age, but again I have very different bloodlines.

I breed for type first. Knowing what I have as far as genetics in place I have found that the birds eventually pattern out better and better as long as I select for type and then color/pattern. As I always try to encourage everyone, breed for type first. if you have MF in the bloodline then eventually your pattern will come out. However, most people expect it to happen in the first or second generation. That is an impossibility. So many get frustrated with this project and I totally understand. It really is a dedication though and can't be done in a few short years.

It is so interesting to read your experiences. I really enjoyed it and it gave me food for thought. Thanks for sharing!

 

[County Boy]

Hi everybody, I'll have pictures up in the next 2 days.

 

[Scifisarah]

Would you consider this fella Mille Fleur or Calico colored? If he is not a good Mille Fleur, what is lacking in his coloration? He is about 3 1/2 months old. He is my only rooster with red, partridge, golden laced, silver laced, self blue, silver penciled, mottled, and black hens. What would their chicks end up looking like?

 

[ki4got]

Would you consider this fella Mille Fleur or Calico colored? If he is not a good Mille Fleur, what is lacking in his coloration? He is about 3 1/2 months old. He is my only rooster with red, partridge, golden laced, silver laced, self blue, silver penciled, mottled, and black hens. What would their chicks end up looking like?

with all those colors you'd be better off getting roos for each color. they're all fairly scarce and need help on their own.

for mille fleur he's not bad, but i think he is lacking a bit in type, which would be more important IMO, than coloration.

 

[Scifisarah]

with all those colors you'd be better off getting roos for each color. they're all fairly scarce and need help on their own.

for mille fleur he's not bad, but i think he is lacking a bit in type, which would be more important IMO, than coloration.

He is only a little over 3 months old - will his type improve, or can you already see at that age that he isn't going to be a decent rooster?

 

[ki4got]

Quote: it might improve... I'm just going by what my own cockerels looked like at that age, compared to how they are now. but maybe someone more experienced can chime in here and give their 2c...

 

[County Boy]

Here are some updated pics of Remington.

 

[Fancy Feathers]

Very handsome!

 

[Msbear]

Everyone -
I have a few observations regarding Mille fleur breeding selection.
First, I've noted that there are four base colors (at least in my flock); buff, mahageny (RIR dark red), orange (New Hampshire orange red) and a brown with poor penciling (think mismarked partridge hens). The buffs tend toward calico and pullets. The mahageny tend to lack black spangles and cockerels. The oranges are best marked and evenly sexed. The browns tend toward calico and pullets. I know the ideal are the oranges for cockerels and light orange or buff for the hens.
Second, the eWh wheaten colored chicks (faded chipmunk stripes on off white) tend toward the buffs and oranges. eb brown based chicks tend toward the other colors.
Third, buff seem to whiten with age at a faster rate than the darker colors.
Much of the available breeding stock has a mix of genetic backgrounds and cleaning this up to produce consistent offspring is the hardest task at hand - along with the ever present type selection.
Thoughts?
Dave

Hey Dave, I would have to agree with you on the most part.... especially the tail end about the mix of genetic backgrounds and cleaning that up to produce consistent offspring. Most of my mahogany have been boys. Both males and females have awesome black markings but, again the color is too dark. I am holding on to a few of them and keep crossing back to orange vermilion to see if that even distribution of pattern can hang on. My orange vermilion boys are strikingly beautiful and fluffy but have very little black. I tend to put those boys over those mahogany girls and mottled crosses. I have been getting washed out buffs (always pullets) some with very washed out chevrons. I don't know what to do with these girls. I would think to put them to a darker roo but that will only darken the black... maybe a deep orange roo to help her fading. It's definitely a long road as Amy mentioned. I took a tiny step back this Spring with losing my best typed roo. I bought another mottled roo with excellent type to keep type going but, again.. that mottled takes you back. I still have lots of nice marked, lesser typed birds that I am breeding to nice typed ones. I wonder how this will all pan out 15 years from now when someone buys a pair from me and crosses them to a pair from Amy or you, Dave and they get a bunch of wackiness from crossing the different lines. But, ya know.. you get that in any breed/variety. I also breed black rosecombs. I out crossed to another line and wound up with deformities in the comb, color variations (should only be black) and lots of other weird stuff. Three years later, I have none of that stuff. It will work itself out I guess... I hope.. lol

 

[mibirder]

All-

Speaking of odd balls that come out of MF/calico pens, I have three pretty nicely typed mismarked Columbian or Db males. One of them has nearly perfect tear dropped spangles, which as I understand is what is often used in Europe for MF patterned Cochins. All three have la fair amount of black Spanglish and mottling (although on white based feathers) - oh how i wish they were buff based! They do have red/gold/mahageny leakage. I got one red female with a small amount of this spangling and may take a shot at moving the spangling over to this red to get there. I also have gotten three or four in various degrees of what looks like pencilled mottled. Two look silver penciled Mottle one looks like silver laced black mottled, and three look to be blue based. The neatest surprise were two mahageny based blue laced (I think)! I'm hoping these will be a pair for some breeding fun.

In my breeders, I have a nice vermillion male with a bit of black and two dark reds with some correct pattern. Also a couple F1 mottled crosses. Most of the odd balls came from the F1s over calico hens. The vermillion x MF hens produced a few ok marked birds and a few more calico. I pen mated this year with one male over 2-3 similar hens, just to increase my numbers. Next, I'll move to pair matings to begin the genetic clean up for both type and color. Hens I have aren't as typed, but better colored than the males.

My goal is to clean up to have an eWh base group and an eb based group. According to what I gleaned from The Coop discussion eWh/eb is the better base to work from for creating consistently marked offspring. Rather than fishing around for eWh/eb stock, I decided to create the separate lines and then cross to each other to have my own hybrid line. Of course that adds a few generations and lots of odd balls, but that's half the fun!

Good thing I'm retired and have lots to time on my hands!

Dave