MILLIE FLEUR COCHIN X SPLASH COCHIN FRIZZLE

[Dustin Biery]

No, if you have two smooth feathered birds (non carriers) they will not produce frizzles...but you can have a bird that is smooth feathered (in appearance) and it still can carry the frizzle gene. If you breed two frizzles together, you will get "curlys." This is not desirable. Having two completely frizzle birds bred together, you will end up with offspring that will have trouble keeping their feathers because they will be brittle.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Dustin, not to pick on you but I have never heard of smooth birds from a frizzle carrying the frizzle gene. I have always been told that is works similar to the blue gene in the way that any smooth birds from them are like black birds from blues, they wont carry blue (frizzle in this case). Has anyone actually had frizzles come from 2 birds that appear smooth?

 

[pokey]

how else would you explain that a frizzle would be produced in a close flock if smooth feathered birds breed together produce frizzled offspring if they don't carry a frizzle gene?

 

[onthespot]

Quote:
unless it happens on a frequent basis, I'd explain it as either a spontaneous mutation, a mixup of eggs after they were collected, a rooster that made a brief unauthorized visit, or a minimally expressed frizzle gene that looks a lot like a normal chicken but actually had a frizzle parent, got the gene, but did not frizzle as much as the others usually do. Some genes can be expressed along a continuum, as in the case of Down's Syndrome, where it can vary from a person you can barely tell is affected, to mentally retarded, bone deformities, all the way to nearly brain dead, with other associated birth defects, that make it not even able to survive outside the womb. Same with color genes in paint horses. Some tobianos look like a plain old quarter horse but actually carry the gene, just a few white hair clumps here and there, but it's a paint and producuses like one. I have one more theory about frizzles, and that is that there are modifier genes that make frizzles "more frizzly" and that the cutest, curliest frizzles carry these genes as well as the frizzle genes, and pass them along separately, sometimes with, sometimes without the frizzle gene. That is just an opinion, and I have not read it anywhere on the internet, and it is not supported by any scientific data of any sort.
Could you post pics of the frizzle that came out of the smooth flock, as well as the parent birds? I would be curious to see them and am open to learning.

 

[Dustin Biery]

Mike, I assure you, it does happen. When I can locate the pictures, I will get them posted. When breeding frizzles, have you ever heard that its best to breed a frizzle (appearance) and a smooth bird. This is so that they do not get both frizzle genes and become a curly.

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

I don't understand modifers, but he talks about them in the Frizzle section.
Follow the link and go to 'page 107':
Hutts Genetics


For what it is worth, I've never gotten a frizzled chick unless one of the parents is obviously frizzled.

Lisa

 

[Dustin Biery]

Thank you Lisa, for that link. There is a ton of information there. Here is a passage that I took from that site....

"Without careful breeding it is somewhat difficult to keep frizzles free from one or more modifying genes which prevent full expression of the character and which are widespread in domestic poultry.
Genetics. Frizzling is caused by the incompletely dominate auto-somal gen, F (Hutt, 1930; Landauer and Dunn, 1930), and the modified types apparently result from the interaction of F with an autosomal recessive modifier, mf. According to Landauer (1933), all bird homozygous for the modifier are affected by it, but in the material of Hutt (1936), though all Ff genotypes were modified by it, only about 40% of the FF birds showed the modified plumage. "

Notice the last sentence. Only 40% showed the modified plumage. There for, it is possible to have to birds that do not show frizzling (or smooth birds) produce frizzled offspring.

 

[tiki244]

you would get blue mille fleurs, some frizzled, some not: But that is on paper, in real life you may get something besides blue mille fleurs

ETA: I meant some adaptation of a blue mille fleur pattern: I crossed a black cochin with a mille fleur, accident, and it was all black but now is coming in with a lot of brown feathers at 2 months.

 

[onthespot]

The person I bought my eggs from that hatched my mille fleur roo said that the black birds that had the most brown in them tended to be better producers of mille fleur than the solid black offspring, for what it's worth. Hang on to that brown marked black bird!

 

[tnkinhunting]

Here is the link on breeding frizzles

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Friz/WhatMakesFriz.html