Miserable start to having backyard chickens

[Fancychooklady]

The two active ingredients in Frontline ARE approved for use in food animals.  The active ingredients are fipronil and (s)methroprene.

Fipronil is approved for use in cattle, sheep, and chickens: http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2465&Itemid=2733

And (s)methroprene is approved as a feed additive for  beef cattle and is also in poultry houses: http://smartlic.com/products/ne-30-igr-fly-control/

In addition permethrins are a toxin and can cause a severe reaction in some small animals, it is also one of the leading causes of fatal poisoning in cats.

I find preventing an infestation to be a heck of a lot easier than trying to eradicate one with DE or permethrins or even gasoline in the case of leg mites. I also believe this method is much less stressful for the birds, my chickens are pets first and egg producers second. In addition my area has a lot of ticks that carry a variety of really serious diseases, neophyte ticks often feed on birds.

Parasitepedia is a good link , I have shared it many times myself. The link clearly states that fipronil is used on cattle in Latin America , yet not Australia or the U.S. .
Fipronil is effective against horn fly and ticks, neither of which afflict chickens.
When using products approved for herbivores and ruminants it's difficult to translate the dosage to chickens as they don't have multiple stomachs, nor to they share similar anatomy. As the seed for each and every egg that a pullet will hatch in her life time is present in her system from day of hatch, I would say that it is fair to say that there is a likelihood that traces of any chemical you use might find its way into the egg.
My point is , there are poultry products on the market that have been tested , so why take the risk ?
The most recent class of pesticides are spinosad based and are available in the U.S and UK and used within the poultry industry.

 

[Sonya9]

My point is , there are poultry products on the market that have been tested , so why take the risk ?

First off my top concern is the health and comfort of my chickens, and I believe frontline is extremely effective while being very easy on the birds. It was recommended by a well known bantam show breeder and I know he wouldn't use anything dangerous on his birds.

Secondly it is used in poultry houses and even better....it is widely used on grains, spices, etc...

I guess the people that would worry about a tiny trace of it ending up in their eggs have a whole lot more to worry about now!

Quote: http://www.bugfreegrains.com/sites/bugfreegrains.com/files/DiaconD_IGR_SpecLabel.pdf


In addition studies have been done on laying hens and the small amount found in eggs (after very high oral doses) was under the government limit at that time. http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v84pr31.htm

 

[Wyandottes7]

First off my top concern is the health and comfort of my chickens, and I believe frontline is extremely effective while being very easy on the birds. It was recommended by a well known bantam show breeder and I know he wouldn't use anything dangerous on his birds.

Secondly it is used in poultry houses and even better....it is widely used on grains, spices, etc...

I guess the people that would worry about a tiny trace of it ending up in their eggs have a whole lot more to worry about now!



In addition studies have been done on laying hens and the small amount found in eggs (after very high oral doses) was under the government limit at that time. http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v84pr31.htm

I wanted to add to this conversation that I use Frontline, too, for my bantam breeders and show birds. However, I do not eat them or their eggs and personally would not put it on my laying hens (unless I noticed a significant infestation). I have found it works great to prevent and treat mite infestations and I recommend it to people when they ask what I treat my birds with. I put a little Frontline spray on a q-tip and then dab the q-tip a few times on the skin beneath my birds' vents. I repeat this every couple months or when I notice mites on the birds.

Frontline and Sevin Dust are the two parasite controllers that I put on my birds. I only use the Sevin dust in infestations when the Frontline doesn't seem to work. I prefer to use the Frontline. Within a few days after applying just a few drops, the mites are gone. I have tried a more "natural" method (Manna Pro Poultry Protector spray) with no success. I have also tried Diatamaceous earth and found it to be virtually worthless. Undoubtedly, those products work for some people and may be good first-attack products for those with laying hens, but I find the "harsher" products to be much faster acting and successful. When birds get parasites, it is important to act fast since a small infestation can quickly grow and spread all over the coop.

 

[Fancychooklady]

I wanted to add to this conversation that I use Frontline, too, for my bantam breeders and show birds. However, I do not eat them or their eggs and personally would not put it on my laying hens (unless I noticed a significant infestation). I have found it works great to prevent and treat mite infestations and I recommend it to people when they ask what I treat my birds with. I put a little Frontline spray on a q-tip and then dab the q-tip a few times on the skin beneath my birds' vents. I repeat this every couple months or when I notice mites on the birds.

Frontline and Sevin Dust are the two parasite controllers that I put on my birds. I only use the Sevin dust in infestations when the Frontline doesn't seem to work. I prefer to use the Frontline. Within a few days after applying just a few drops, the mites are gone. I have tried a more "natural" method (Manna Pro Poultry Protector spray) with no success. I have also tried Diatamaceous earth and found it to be virtually worthless. Undoubtedly, those products work for some people and may be good first-attack products for those with laying hens, but I find the "harsher" products to be much faster acting and successful. When birds get parasites, it is important to act fast since a small infestation can quickly grow and spread all over the coop.

Yes, I have many friends that have exclusively show birds and they often use such products , knowing full well that they nor anyone else will be consuming their eggs. But the theory that because someone else eats the eggs and hasn't dropped dead yet , doesn't wash with me. Vets often recommend the use of ivermectin on birds , but I wonder if you offered to supply the vet with free eggs , whether or not he would feed them to his family.
I think you ' hit the nail on the head ' , when you say ' the harsher products are faster acting and more successful ' , people are inclined to go for the ' quick fix ' . But at what risk to the birds ? Have you looked into spinosad ? Unlike pyrethrum based products , the parasite doesn't appear to build immunity to it. It's a little pricey , but it's also organic.
All that being said , we are getting off the original topic and I'm sure the OP will decide for himself.

 

[shortgrass]

Ok, just for the sake of education.... CARBARYL, the active ingredient in Sevin, has been proven carcinogenic. Here's the MSDS for CARBARYL.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...W2nByw&usg=AFQjCNHUHKoohuIcnlbbWb0gaiaTVU6DcA

Fipronil, one of the ingredients in Front line, is highly carcinogenic. Here's the MSDS for that.
http://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/pesticides/fipronil--page.htm

Methoprene, the other ingredients in Front line, low toxicity but still chemical and caution against ingestion or dermal exposure ...MSDS for that.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TMTAK8&usg=AFQjCNEB4sS_DVJ0Uwdu1FTCOibseI7jWA

Ok and here's an MSDS for BT, a natural microbe proven to eradicate certain pests. (Notice how small and blank it is lol)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...UfUCSA&usg=AFQjCNEhhNL7r1xyR7toEtuhttjSRZ_MGQ

On to Spinosad, which is just a different kind of microbe... Safe.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...YkYDdo&usg=AFQjCNEY1I5NQNpzYebxKFwAx0E0uwcKlQ

Now, Neem oil. Kills on contact, can't ask for faster than that, also deemed safe. MSDS for that. Watch using it near water of you like your fish,though

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cT_D0E&usg=AFQjCNGbYTfFoV21Xi2LCqr6TSVUUFaHRA




As we can see, there really is no need to unwittingly taint another person's eggs with chemicals when its not necessary at all. In fact, we can actually do more harm to our birds immune systems with overuse if these chemicals, and them we will start having to pump antibiotics and wormers in them because we failed to keep their immune system healthy.

Oh, FYI, albendazole vs pumpkin seeds for wormer? Pumkins seeds have been PROVEN superior, so why even use the chemical one when the natural actually works better?


Here's extra credit; albendazole vs curcubits extract
http://www.academia.edu/download/30987555/1.pdf

 

[casportpony]

What? Pumpkin seeds superior? That I got to see. Can you find a link to that? The one you posted is broken.

-Kathy

 

[shortgrass]

Argh, it just worked the other day

Ok, I'll try s couple others...
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/a...xima-pumpkin-seeds-carica-papaya-papaya-seeds


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123756886101100




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3103934/


http://imsear.li.mahidol.ac.th/handle/123456789/151641

http://iijfmt.indianjournals.com/ijor.aspx?target=ijor:rjpp&volume=5&issue=1&article=002


http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19540800741.html


Hopefully there's something not needing paid for, or broken, because my computer skills are seriously lacking lol; I'll screw it up if I try cutting and pasting quotes


BTW, just for sake of the thread, and Kathy lol, you know I use DE

I do believe the problem lies in the DE in this case; not the general use of it, per se, but possible OVERuse. It really shouldn't be necessary to coat them in it, and that would have triggered a reaction from the dust, essentially giving them a respiratory infection... I use it in my feed, and maybe a cup of it in the bottoms if my nesting boxes. That's it. More than that is just overkill, and might cause exactly what we see here... Just IMHO

Edit* added one more link to the list

 

[Fancychooklady]

Argh, it just worked the other day

Ok, I'll try s couple others...
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/a...xima-pumpkin-seeds-carica-papaya-papaya-seeds


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123756886101100




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3103934/


http://imsear.li.mahidol.ac.th/handle/123456789/151641

http://iijfmt.indianjournals.com/ijor.aspx?target=ijor:rjpp&volume=5&issue=1&article=002


http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19540800741.html


Hopefully there's something not needing paid for, or broken, because my computer skills are seriously lacking lol; I'll screw it up if I try cutting and pasting quotes


BTW, just for sake of the thread, and Kathy lol, you know I use DE

I do believe the problem lies in the DE in this case; not the general use of it, per se, but possible OVERuse. It really shouldn't be necessary to coat them in it, and that would have triggered a reaction from the dust, essentially giving them a respiratory infection... I use it in my feed, and maybe a cup of it in the bottoms if my nesting boxes. That's it. More than that is just overkill, and might cause exactly what we see here... Just IMHO

Edit* added one more link to the list

I'm sorry I went through the links and found them to be lacking in detail. What do earth worms have to do with chickens ?

 

[shortgrass]

I'm sorry I went through the links and found them to be lacking in detail. What do earth worms have to do with chickens ?

Those were for Kathy; my link from the previous post didn't work

It was about albendazole, wormer.

I tried to cut a paste from another post; the general information, to save sifting and trying to read all that technical jargon... I hope it works lol, I get frustrated at little phone research ha-ha

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/a...xima-pumpkin-seeds-carica-papaya-papaya-seeds

PUB. DATE
July 2013

SOURCE
International Journal of Research in Ayurveda & Pharmacy;Jul/Aug2013, Vol. 4 Issue 4, p530

SOURCE TYPE
Academic Journal

DOC. TYPE
Article

ABSTRACT
The crude extract of Carica papaya (papaya) seeds (CP) and Cucurbita maxima (Pumpkin) seeds (CM) were assayed against adult earthworms (Pheretima posthuma) for the evaluation of anthelmintic activity. Various concentrations of both extracts were tested and results were expressed in terms of time for paralysis (P) and time for death (D) of worms. Albendazole was used as a reference standard. The result showed that in both of the extracts (i.e. CP and CM) dose of 60 mg / ml possesses more wormicidal activity. The time of paralysis was 1.88 ± 0.52 minute and 1.93 ± 0.57 minute whereas the time of death was 3.45 ± 0.17 minute and 4.90 ± 0.18 minute in the case of Carica papaya and Cucurbita maxima respectively. In conclusion, the use of seeds of Carica papaya (CP) and Cucurbita maxima (CM) for anthelmintic activity have been confirmed and further studies are suggested to isolate the active principles responsible for the activity. Both the extracts showed significant anthelmintic activity, but the comparative study showed that out of these two, Carica papaya proves to be a better anthelmintic remedy.



Quote:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123756886101100

The pumpkin Cucurbita moschata is an annual dicotyledonous vegetable, belonging to the Cucurbitaceae family. It is used as a medicinal plant for prostate and bladder problems, and as an anthelmintic, galactogogue, and anti-emetic. Pumpkin seed is used as a vermifuge in several countries, and C. moschata seed contains a wide range of bioactive compounds, some of which could possess anthelmintic properties, prompting experimental studies. This chapter reviews the experimental data on the anthelmintic evaluation of C. moschata seed.

This chapter outlines the pharmacological actions and potential uses of pumpkin and its extracts. Pumpkin seed oil contains 9.5-13% palmitic, 6-7.93% stearic, 0.04% arachidic, 37-39% oleic, and 44% linoleic acid. The seed also contains a wide range of bioactive compounds. The aqueous extract of the seeds of C. moschata showed efficacy as an anthelmintic in humans. The use of aqueous extracts of pumpkin seeds in the treatment of puppies experimentally infected with heterophyasis gave promising results, with even better results when combining extracts of areca nut and pumpkin seeds than when giving either extract alone. The secondary metabolites suspected to be responsible for anthelmintic activity in C. moschata seed are a triterpenic compound named cucurbitacin B, a non-proteic amino acid named cucurbitin, saponins, and sterols. The non-proteic amino acid cucurbitin, which is only present in the seeds, has been focused on as the active principle responsible for anthelmintic, notably taenicidal and schistosomicidal, activity. Cucurbitin is also used as an anti-allergen for the preparation of cosmetics and pharmaceuticals, particularly dermatological, products. Despite the focus on cucurbitin as the active principle, other secondary metabolites present in the seeds of C. moschata might also be considered as anthelmintics. The non-proteic amino acid cucurbitin (3-amino-pyrrolidine-3-carboxylic acid) is suspected to be the active principle. Cucurbitin was mostly reported to have no side effects, and only a weak level of toxicity was described in dogs and humans.


Quote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3103934/



From the study, it is observed that Z. zerumbet has shown better activity than C. maxima at a higher concentration (100 mg/ml) compared to standard Albendazole (100 mg/ml). The comparison of death time for both the plants in different concentrations with respect to standard (Albendazole).

 

[appps]

@CHICKENTIKKA82 how are your chickens going? Still improving I hope!

To answer your question, I'm not sure what I used instead of the wood shavings, possibly some dustless looking straw, it was a couple years back and only temporary as they soon after went into the big coop which did have shavings but a lot lot better ventilation due to the size of it. I did have it occur again after using a particularly dusty lot of straw in the nesting box but it knew what to look for that time and as soon as I heard the breathing noise and sneezing worked it out and replaced it.