Mixing the Lavender gene with the diluter B/B/S

[dak]

Not to insult anybody, BUT there are many people out there with incomplete knowledge of genetics and/or looking to make a buck. I think it will be difficult to ever be 100% certain that lav isn't lurking in the comming years as it becomes more popular. It would be educational if knowledgable breeders purposely did some crosses and established what the color/feather quality issues truly are.

Also, as hard as breeders try, it is hard to make your coop into fort knox. A well-intentioned breeder may still have have an escape artist. I had a black bird hatch out of supposedly pure lav eggs sent to me by a top breeder. If I had not had my lav eggs segregated in the incubator from the Black/blue eggs from the same breeder, I would have no clue that this chick is probably a split from a black hen who liked to visit the lav pen. Anyone can have a brain fart when collecting eggs and write the wrong info on them. Who can say they never make a mistake. SOOOOOO, best these crosses are made and we know how big a deal it is.

 

[ChooksChick]

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LOVE your logic!

 

[ChooksChick]

I'm moving this comment from the Lav Silkie thread so this topic doesn't hijack that one:


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Found this early on in the thread. Great info from Bren!

I want to respond to this, since I have direct experience with the striped chicks in Lav Silkies: I think it's simply an normal presentation in chick down of having a pattern in the genes. If you look at the patterns expressed in chick down, they are quite consistent- there was a great discussion on another chicken forum (largely interested in genetics) recently, and one can identify standard patterns in the way the chick down looks.

Anyway, in these Silkies who have the patterns, I think we're seeing the manifestation of a pattern that is only expressed part of the time, and isn't visible in a solid black bird. I haven't seen enough of it, nor recently enough to make that identification with my newfound chick down maps, but I think it's possibly just a pattern that isn't visible in the adults.

I think by crossing back to Black adults early on, Bren and others were clearing other colors and patterns from the gene to isolate it. That makes sense.

Now it's isolated. B/B/S are also generally only present in an already clarified Black bird.

I'm VERY interested in the colored hackles- were these just birds that weren't a clean black and had Columbian hackles or somesuch? It would come through differently as do the White and the Gold on a d'Uccle when Lavender is applied to make Mille change over to a Porcelain.


Edited to add: Before I go saying anything else, which might be wrong at that, I've asked Henk69 to come weigh in...he'll correct me and perhaps offer his insight.

 

[Henk69]

Bad idea.

First a few remarks.
Lavender in one dose does not have an effect. If the lavender parent is low on melanizers*, that could dilute the crosslings too.
Platinum is not a gene. Platinum = Blue + Dun.

Consensus about lavender plus ... :
lavender plus splash: probably splash (with lavender flecks?)
lavender plus blue: would fitt in the range of (light* to dark) lavender.
lavender plus chocolate, dun: ditto.

If one wants to show how such animals look, beyond any doubt, the animals should be testmated etc...
No one has done that yet.
So there isn't any certainty in that area.
That's why I wouldn't do it.

Still I would be very interested in the endresult of such an experiment, but it would have to be pretty strict.

And not on a silky. Everything dilute looks the same on a silky, sorry.

Another reason not to cross with blue for improvement of color:
You can't be sure if your blue animal is well melanized.
That is why blue chickens are often improved by crossing to a black.
Hope you get the point.

 

[ChooksChick]

Fabulous info- I knew finding you would answer my questions fairly quickly! Thanks so much, Henk!

I get ahead of myself sometimes, but it's all due to crazy curiosity!!

I think I'll be having some intentional experiments and will update down the line. I can't help it...curious.

If anyone has done any of these test-matings (on purpose or accidentally), I'd love to see some images.

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[Sonoran Silkies]

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I disagree; they look almost the same.

 

[SilkieTime]

I am working on BBS silkies and still need black. Should I worry Lavender being in the black chicken that I want to add to my blue and splash? With a lot of people working with black and lavender should I worry that it could get in my breeding pen and do something to it and what would that be? Not that I don't like lavender, I do. I just can't start any new colors right now.

 

[Chris09]

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I disagree; they look almost the same.

I agree with Sonoran,
I know a guy that had some Splash OE's that you would swear that they were Lavender (Self Blue).
On the other hand I have a Splash Polish Rooster that would pass as a White.

Chris

 

[ChooksChick]

Thanks to all for your input- I'm fairly stubborn and have to be shown a variety of reasons why some absurd idea I get isn't really the BEST idea. I will go ahead and experiment- but only so that we can have some references for the future of predictable reaction. I think it's good to be able to identify if something happens unintentionally.

Regarding the Splits out there in the world masquerading as Black- what is the ethical, responsible way we can all avoid the potential for confusion these represent? Is there a way to handle this? I've always sold mine as Splits, and it was an added value, so it wasn't as if it would be overlooked or forgotten in those birds.

What have you guys have done? What would you all suggest?

 

[TurtleFeathers]

IMO, honesty is the best policy - or maybe I should say "full disclosure"... In other words, if you KNOW that a particular bird or batch of chicks had a visual parent of a recessive color, then they are guaranteed splits, and should be offered as such. If there is the slightest possibility that there could be a recessive color lurking/hidden in their backgrounds, even if it was many generations ago, that should be stated at the time of sale as well. That way, the buyer can make an informed decision on their purchase, and if they choose to buy, they know exactly what they're getting, and there are no surprises down the road when an odd color pops up.