MJ's little flock

[MaryJanet]

You know I wasn’t criticizing you for anything.
It is just the whole system that I hate.

Oh, yeh, I was just expressing my views!

 

[ManueB]

I have very mixed emotions about whether rescue is a good thing or simply papers over a horrific situation.

Same with me. I was really against it for a while. Now I'm not so sure. This summer I came upon a vet's PhD dissertation on increasing animal welfare for the process of culling battery hens. This concerned the situation in France and most of it was about the stress the hens underwent during handling , transportations and waiting to be culled (lasting for as long as three days, packed and starving). So it's a terrible ending after a life of pain. Rescues in France represent about 1% of all ex-batt's. I saw that BWHT claims to put 50 000 rescues for adoption each year, I'm not sure how much that represents. Anyway I thought rescue was in a way supporting the system but with numbers so low, I'm not so sure.

How would that work when people's pet dogs and cats need surgery? No antibiotics? There'll be a lot of gangrenous pets around.

For now the proposal has been rejected, but there is a huge concern toward antibioresistance developing and whereas the use of antibiotics for livestock is declining in European countries it is really increasing for domestic animals.
A list of antibiotics have been dedicated for human use, and others are on a watchlist where the vet has to declare any prescription.

I know we don't have alternatives to treat pets, but if the antibiotics stop working we will have the same problem.
E. coli is one of the most concerning bacteria for antibioresistance and one that affect chickens often.
I don't think a complete ban for vet use would pass, but I do believe restrictions will get more and more drastic. Same for antimicrobials.

 

[RoyalChick]

Same with me. I was really against it for a while. Now I'm not so sure. This summer I came upon a vet's PhD dissertation on increasing animal welfare for the process of culling battery hens. This concerned the situation in France and most of it was about the stress the hens underwent during handling , transportations and waiting to be culled (lasting for as long as three days, packed and starving). So it's a terrible ending after a life of pain. Rescues in France represent about 1% of all ex-batt's. I saw that BWHT claims to put 50 000 rescues for adoption each year, I'm not sure how much that represents. Anyway I thought rescue was in a way supporting the system but with numbers so low, I'm not so sure.

For now the proposal has been rejected, but there is a huge concern toward antibioresistance developing and whereas the use of antibiotics for livestock is declining in European countries it is really increasing for domestic animals.
A list of antibiotics have been dedicated for human use, and others are on a watchlist where the vet has to declare any prescription.

I know we don't have alternatives to treat pets, but if the antibiotics stop working we will have the same problem.
E. coli is one of the most concerning bacteria for antibioresistance and one that affect chickens often.
I don't think a complete ban for vet use would pass, but I do believe restrictions will get more and more drastic. Same for antimicrobials.

I agree the numbers of rescued hens is tiny, but psychologically it provides a fig leaf that allows people to believe that it all has a happy ending. I believe the bigger focus should be on humane handling and slaughter, and my unrealistic wish is we stop using hens that are destined to suffer and rather have truly free range eggs from dual purpose hens.
I am lucky in that I can find such eggs at farms near me - they are more expensive of course and I am sure it is not the main source of income for those farmers, but it is something and I just wish that was more common.
The antibiotic issue is tricky. You would think it could be handled in other ways like specific animal antibiotics and more responsible use in both people and animals. I don't think pet antibiotic use will ever be as big an issue as livestock use was because it is truly only for sick pets, whereas they were used wholesale as growth promoters in livestock - ie given to all cattle in a herd regardless of health status.

 

[Shadrach]

Believing that by buying heritage breeds one is reducing the abuse of the chicken is not born out by the facts. The majority of heritage breeds would not exist if people didn't buy them. They are not used in the food chain and worse still the very qualities that should make them a healthier and longer lived creature have been erroded by the hatchery and breeder systems. It is common to read here on BYC of heritage breeds dying from similar ailments to the high production breeds; five years old being an average age it seems. That's only one year more than the average battery hen life expectancy.

 

[ManueB]

Believing that by buying heritage breeds one is reducing the abuse of the chicken is not born out by the facts.

I don't think I agree though I have never bought heritage breeds and so am not speaking from experience. One thing I'm sure of is that I wouldn't want to buy a high production breed that will lay every day during two years.

The majority of heritage breeds would not exist if people didn't buy them. They are not used in the food chain and worse still the very qualities that should make them a healthier and longer lived creature have been erroded by the hatchery and breeder systems.

I was getting the idea that the hatchery system for heritage breed is a US thing ? There is no such thing in France or in the European countries I heard of.
I have read on french forums breeders denouncing the fact that some people are reviving heritage breeds that disappeared for a reason, because they were too fragile. And reviving a lost breed or a very rare one does necessarily means beginning with very little stock to chose from, so more likely to encounter health issues.
However I definitely don't think that breeders in my country at least can be qualified abusive to the chickens as the batteries are. I understand from reading some of your previous posts that this may not be the case in GB. For just one thing size matters. Most batteries here are over 10 000 units. Most organics are at the max number of three thousands. There are no breeders of heritage breeds of that size.

It is common to read here on BYC of heritage breeds dying from similar ailments to the high production breeds; five years old being an average age it seems. That's only one year more than the average battery hen life expectancy.

Once again I think most of these concern the US. I've been quite surprised reading about these, but I'm not sure they are so common - I didn't count.
On the other hand, I don't know if some of you remember that thread about old hens , asking what age and what breed were your oldest hens ? From what I remember except for one RIR, there wasn't a single hen of high production breed mentioned.

 

[BY Bob]

She appears to have pooped mainly urates overnight, so I'll make her an appointment. She needs help.

Oh my.

 

[BY Bob]

It's things like Legionnaires Disease that are a concern in the UK water systems.

Exactly.

 

[BY Bob]

I bet if you asked Lilly she would point out that for their survival they need to be on their toes and she's just making sure that happens.

I'm certain that education was her goal. Absolutely.

 

[BY Bob]

Lorna's appointment is in an hour or so. She's all set in the picnic basket and was so easy to catch.

Her friends are fretting without her but I can't take them along this time. I haven't time to catch them both and I don't want to leave one alone and fretting.

Lorna is too unwell to care whether she has a friend with her or not.

We'll set off in 30 minutes.

Gosh that is concerning.

 

[BY Bob]

I think they only come in one dose. I will look when I get up I remember 600 something.
The dose seemed to be 3-4 of them. Even my most compliant hen got bored after two. Most I ever managed was three. But you can repeat it. They poo most of it out anyway!
I was giving calcium for soft shells not egg binding so I had to try it every day. It didn’t help Diana who I think has an issue with her shell gland.

I have a liquid supplement that I can either inject into their mouths directly or add to their water as well for long term supplementing if I feel I need it. All part of the kit.