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Mottled Houdan masking another color?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by blackclownfish16, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Heres one of my breeder bantam mottled houdan cocks for this year and if you look close you can see red tipped feathers in his hackle. He also has a few red tipped feather in his crest. He has the most of this color but my other two cocks do have a little. Anyway I was wondering what causes this (is he masking bbred or maybe has red intensifiers) [​IMG] and how can I breed away from it. None of the hens have it at all and I need this cock because the others are a little too gay. So I will be using him this year and any thoughts would be appreciated. [​IMG]


    I plan on hatching at least 150 mottled houdan chicks this year so I have a better selection next year and can avoid this hopefully.
  2. wilds of pa

    wilds of pa Songster

    Thats gonna be a tough one to rid your self of, the hens may not show it, but you can bet they are carrying it or some of them may be, you could hatch and hatch and select a new cockerel that doesn't show it from all the chicks your gonna hatch out to get one.

    you will have to grow them out to be able to select a cockerel that doesn't have it. Hopefully the hens don't have it cause if they do it may be intensified to sort of say on those chicks..

    other choice/option is to find a good clear mottled roo to use and test mate to your hens, or use a good clean black cock and breed to your mottled hens, however they first offspring wont show the mottled look, but breeding a black cock(carrying the mo gene) back to the mother mottled hens or breeding the f1's together will get you mottled again..

    hope this helps some
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  3. Vcomb

    Vcomb Songster

    Aug 19, 2008
    South Dakota
    My Coop
    what's happening is the "primer coat of paint" is showing through. Houdans have the gold gene, but it is masked by their black and white plumage. Males are usually the first to show when this red comes back to the surface. However, he can be an asset to your flock. Birds with some red showing such as him can be used to give a boost to the green sheen of the feathers. So I say breed him, then select back sons that do not show the red feathers.
  4. Whatever the cause may be, that roo is gorgeous! [​IMG] What a lovely mixing!

    NYREDS Crowing

    Jan 14, 2008
    Quote:Absolutely true-when I bred Black Rosecombs if I didn't have a male with a little red in the hackle I went & bought one.
  6. wilds of pa

    wilds of pa Songster

    Yup he is nice looking, but id stay away from the red..Just my 2 cents..

    or breed him like I said and choose a male offspring that doesn't have it..

    don't worry the green sheen isn't going anywhere real soon.
    if you keep breeding and selecting the red visually to each other or breeding the roo to hens that have it, its gonna get way out of control and continue to leak out red in the offspring, you will find out in hurry that you don't want the red..

    Most are looking to get the red out in there breedings, certainly in blacks as well as many other color variety's. i know our mottled orp projects if any roo's have it I'm certainly going to stay away from it, unless i have no choice, but right now i have a few mottled cockerels and expect to see NO red in them..ya... [​IMG]

    Best of luck [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  7. Thanks for the replys everyone and polishprincess he is a beaut eh? [​IMG]
    So I understand that this is caused by leakage but I'm just wondering why it's only leaking through on the cocks? Also am I right in assuming all mottled birds are gold based or are some silver? How would the gold/silver affect a black and white bird? Also is this a random thing or is it a recessive factor? Sorry for more questions just keeping things fresh [​IMG]

    One more thing there wouldn't be anyway to figure out red leakage by chick down color would there? I'm assuming not cuz this guy was exactly like all the other little tuxedo chicks...haha.
  8. Henk69

    Henk69 Songster

    Nov 29, 2008
    Groesbeek Netherlands
    I think that "Red showing through enhances the green sheen" is a myth.

    A gold based black could have a better green sheen than a silver based black. But the gold (or red) does not have to show through to produce a green sheen!
    It is sort of a garantuee that a bird is gold base, but if that is the case anyway, forget it.

    Why is the red showing through?
    Lack of melanizers.
    Melanizers are needed to make a bird all black (not rusty).
    Pullets are less prone to rustiness so you can't see the first signs of melanizer-loss on them.
    You do see it on the roos however.

    So my tipp is also: Do not use if you have the choice.

    A good black cockerel is the only garantuee against melanizer loss.
  9. wilds of pa

    wilds of pa Songster

    Henk69, I believe this may also play a part in why the females along with other factors don't express the hidden color, the gold/red color is displayed on the males because of how the males carry the color in there chromosomes which allows it to be expressed, i believe males have more expression room to say than a female does, but the females hide it and can pass it along to there offspring. i think thats how it goes or the way i understood it.

    Maybe you can correct me if i said it wrong..im no geneticist, just like to read lots. [​IMG]

    age is catching up to me and i cant retain all of what i have read in the past.. [​IMG]

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  10. Vcomb

    Vcomb Songster

    Aug 19, 2008
    South Dakota
    My Coop
    I just noticed you're in Alaska - where in the heck did you come up with bantam Houdans in Alaska? they can't be that common I'm betting.

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