Muddy Smelly Run (sorry)

[RaZ]

If done properly the deep litter method is turning your coop or run into a compost pile.

I agree with everything you said except for the part about DLM composting in the coop. Composting requires moisture. The coop should be as dry as possible, especially in winter. A damp coop can cause problems for chickens like frostbite or respiratory ailments.
Deep litter is great in the coop but don't expect it to compost or generate heat. Fluff it up often over the winter to mix the poo in then do a complete clean out in spring. Use all of that litter to start a nice compost pile outside.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree with everything you said except for the part about DLM composting in the coop. Composting requires moisture. The coop should be as dry as possible, especially in winter.

I've addressed this in many other threads. In the true deep litter method you are composting and it does require moisture. It's a bit of a tricky balance. If it is too wet then you get those anaerobic microbes, not good at all. It can become a health hazard or stinky if it is too wet. But if you keep it just damp enough for the good microbes to live but not wet it is quite healthy.

I personally do not use the deep litter method. I keep my coop so dry that those microbes can't live or reproduce. The poop and wood shavings never break down, but their scratching shreds it. I clean it out once every three of four years, not because I need to but because I want that stuff on my garden. If I empty and till it in in the fall by planting time if has broken down very well.

 

[RaZ]

I personally do not use the deep litter method. I keep my coop so dry that those microbes can't live or reproduce. .

I think we are on the same page.
I do DLM in my coop. I like the deep soft floor and the fact that I don't have to worry about deep cleaning the coop. Like you said, every few years for that big clean out.

Composting is part science and part magic, I think. I have a few different piles cooking year round. There is always some of that wonderful humus for the garden each spring.

 

[paintedChix]

I have gotten our stinky, sand based coop/pens to work w/ DLM. Both inside actual dirt floored coops , covered runs & in open runs. The trick, when getting a lot of rain & high humidity, is using different size particles/materials that allow poop & related wetness to sink in, breakdown but also has open areas for both water & air to percolate through. Also, with overload of rain, make sure excess water is deflected by french drains, berms & ditches - don't have to be huge, just enough to redirect flowing water.

Part of the issue was using only hay. It's generally the same size/length & you've discovered how it mats & becomes stinky/anaerobic. By itself, it is also not a very absorbent material. Use other materials, at this point, I wouldn't worry about mixing it in. Just bring it in & dump it. Leaves (it will take A LOT to get this started), wood chips might be best - all different sizes. Pine shavings - can help w/ scent. If dumped in piles next to each other, your birds will have a ball spreading & mixing it together. We've even used shredded paper - my shredder doesn't double cut, so it's larger, not extremely fine or small. Be aware, shredded paper can pack down when wet if only material & can/will turn into cement (think paper mache & papercrete). So it definitely needs other materials. I shred cardboard - different types/weight/sizes along with Bill's, junk mail & newspaper. I try to mix those up, too.

Here are pics over the years of DLM for us. We need many more bags right now again...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Z4ZpfpHr1Nr5DZC8

To see some pics of coops/runs - we don't have anything fancy, but doesn't stink. Pine straw & oak leaves are wonderful things... but there are many other materials as well.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fgKYkhxNAXBnH6B36

That's interesting - from my phone, Galaxy 8 w/ Verizon service, I don't see signature blocks. We are in Cameron, NC - about midway between Fayetteville & Raleigh. Considered "the sandhills" region. This year, in 2019, we've had rain much more regularly but in much smaller increments (certainly not like in 2016 when we'd had 16" + of rain in the months of August & September - then Hurricane Matthew dumped a measured 11" on us in less than 12 hours).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uY25ubH7hd3TzL3J8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VmtUgwJww88W5t8L8

I didn't have good, deep DLM in that coop at the time - it had simply been way too wet to gather materials... didn't take long, after Mathew, to get those 3 coops going again (1 next to barn & 2 behind tree).

 

[Rshumpal]

AArt, is so right on this! I use deep litter method too, and it works for happy hens!
but, still clean up the poop if you can!

Ok, how deep is deep? When I built my coop (6x8) from a salvaged dutch style shed we leveled the lovely 99% clay ground the best we could, I layered with hardware cloth, and then i put 6 bags of sand on top of the cloth to level the ground and provide drainage. The sides of the coop sit 6" high from the base and are also covered with cloth. Then after the coop and run were built (run has hardware cloth and 2 1/2 bags sand), i added other material.

The coop got the remains of the inside baby box: 2 bags pine shavings, a small bag PDZ, 1/2 bag peat moss (never inside again!!!), and 1/2 small pine nuggets, plus another 1 bag peat moss, 2 pine straw bales, 2 small bags pine nuggets, and 1 more pine shavings. The run got the other 1/2 bag peat moss, 1 straw bale, 2 bags small pine nuggets.

When the rain started in January, and hasn't stopped, I added another bag of large pine nuggets in the run and a tarp over the half close to the door.

Everything is damp and SMELLY at this point. The clay is so saturated water is standing in my back yard, but not in the coop or run do to the build up from the ground. If it ever stops raining I'm going to add clear roofing to the run to help with the rain.

Suggestions

 

[rosemarythyme]

The coop got the remains of the inside baby box: 2 bags pine shavings, a small bag PDZ, 1/2 bag peat moss (never inside again!!!), and 1/2 small pine nuggets, plus another 1 bag peat moss, 2 pine straw bales, 2 small bags pine nuggets, and 1 more pine shavings. The run got the other 1/2 bag peat moss, 1 straw bale, 2 bags small pine nuggets.

Everything is damp and SMELLY at this point. The clay is so saturated water is standing in my back yard, but not in the coop or run do to the build up from the ground. If it ever stops raining I'm going to add clear roofing to the run to help with the rain.

Probably going to be tough for you since it hasn't stopped raining (which I get... my run has flooded twice this year!) and with clay as your base, drainage is an issue. Even a roof won't fix things when it's that bad, as ground water from oversaturation is going to seep up into the chicken area.

Did you add any actual drains in the area before putting in the coop and run?

I would scrap peat moss completely in the future - it absorbs water well, and then never wants to dry out. Go a lot chunkier on your run components too, which will help water drain through effectively. This is @aart 's photo, to give you a point of reference. https://www.backyardchickens.com/gallery/chips-6-21-19-4.7917441/ But without some place for the water to go, it's going to just stand in place, so the best you can do for the time being is to elevate the floor of the run to provide a dry-ish surface so the chickens can at least come out.

 

[Rshumpal]

Probably going to be tough for you since it hasn't stopped raining (which I get... my run has flooded twice this year!) and with clay as your base, drainage is an issue. Even a roof won't fix things when it's that bad, as ground water from oversaturation is going to seep up into the chicken area.

Did you add any actual drains in the area before putting in the coop and run?

I would scrap peat moss completely in the future - it absorbs water well, and then never wants to dry out. Go a lot chunkier on your run components too, which will help water drain through effectively. This is @aart 's photo, to give you a point of reference. https://www.backyardchickens.com/gallery/chips-6-21-19-4.7917441/ But without some place for the water to go, it's going to just stand in place, so the best you can do for the time being is to elevate the floor of the run to provide a dry-ish surface so the chickens can at least come out.

Thanks.
we didn’t add drainage but the coop leveling and build up (it sits on bricks all around) is about 8” above the area, giving us a nice pond.
I realized the peat moss mistake early. Thankfully there is only 2 Lowe’s bags in the entire area.
I need to figure out how to move the house drainage out to the front. I guess Lowe’s, TSC, & RK are on the list today.
It was a rare day of sun yesterday and it froze so I’m temporarily pond free.
Thanks

 

[rosemarythyme]

we didn’t add drainage but the coop leveling and build up (it sits on bricks all around) is about 8” above the area, giving us a nice pond.
I realized the peat moss mistake early. Thankfully there is only 2 Lowe’s bags in the entire area.
I need to figure out how to move the house drainage out to the front.

Drains should help at least get some of the underlying water to move out of the way (admittedly I don't know much about drains though so I'm not good at specific suggestions). Building up the litter should help too, and I'd definitely mix in more chunky stuff for drainage and maybe dried leaves in the future (which will break down nicely along with poop) but once the ground is at saturation point the moisture is just going to go upward, so mainly right now best you can aim for is a dry-ish surface to walk on.

At least it doesn't look too bad? Definitely sticky, but not a complete mud pit.

 

[Rshumpal]

Drains should help at least get some of the underlying water to move out of the way (admittedly I don't know much about drains though so I'm not good at specific suggestions). Building up the litter should help too, and I'd definitely mix in more chunky stuff for drainage and maybe dried leaves in the future (which will break down nicely along with poop) but once the ground is at saturation point the moisture is just going to go upward, so mainly right now best you can aim for is a dry-ish surface to walk on.

At least it doesn't look too bad? Definitely sticky, but not a complete mud pit.

I went out on an actual non-rain day last Saturday. Took a stick and shook all of the old Pineneedles out of our one Pinetree. Not long needles like pine straw but lots of short ones and little crunchy sticks. Piled all the current bedding up on the side, it was moist like it’s been way too wet outside but wasn’t actually wet. Put a layer of the new pine down and then put all back and went all the way across so there’s 2 inches of new Pineneedles with small sticks underneath what I had. It seems to be back to warm it moist like it was in the fall before the rain hit.
Thank you everyone for all of your help

 

[LoanswithLaurieB]

Ok whoever said put down pallets is absolutely brilliant. Our run is about 16x20 and in Virginia red clay so it really holds the water. I’m in the foothills of Appalachia so very hilly land and we, incl the chickens, are on top of a hill. When it rains, the wood chips (courtesy of our tree trimmers) all get washed to one quadrant of the run leaving the rest of the run with muddy clay. We have a load of pallets different shapes and sizes leftover from building the coop (no plans, it was a wing it kind of thing, and turned out great for our needs). It looks cute to boot. I put down a 4x7’ pallet in their yard and leveled it with some red bricks. I did the same with a 3x4 under their feed bucket. Taking the tight fitting gamma-lid off the feed bucket was ALWAYS a hassle for me, now it’s about six inches higher and on a level surface once I take it off the chain. Win-win for everyone.
I put their water bucket w/cups on the big pallet and a rough sawn board down in front of the cups so they’re not standing in mud when they drink. Thanks to whoever said that! They now have something like 40sf of dry area to hang out on rainy days. I think I’ll take another pallet, cover it with chicken wire and plant greens for them come spring! Much love!