Munchausen by Vet Proxy

[SpottedCrow]

I checked in the aisle and we have Benebac and Ornabac.

http://www.petco.com/product/6650/Mardel-Ornabac-Bird-Supplement.aspx

http://www.petco.com/product/102266/Pet-Ag-Bene-Bac-Beneficial-Bacteria.aspx

These might be something to keep in the birdie medicine chest.

 

[seminolewind]

I'd get a fecal culture and fecal worm count from a sample of poop by taking the poop to the vet. Then I would find a university with a poultry program like what was said by someone on the board, on the phone you can go countrywide, (cornell agricultural in New York), or call hatcheries and get the place that they use, and discuss the results with the right person on the phone. This way you get results from a doc, and read by an expert. Karen

 

[seminolewind]

Here's a good place to get info:
www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/extensn.htm

 

[Enchanted Sunrise Farms]

Well, i've tried sending emails to UC Davis Veterinary Medicine school, and so far no replies. dlhunicorn, i did email my state veterinarian and waiting for a reply. Thanks so much for the link.

SpottedCrow, thanks for the link. They should have that in stock at Petco, i would think. Will pick some up today or tomorrow, and keep with the yogurt in the meantime.

seminolewind, thank you for the link. i did not find my particular problem (or possible problem, if it is one at all), but what a great resource. i might be able to email them and get some information. On the fecal, my vet did one on Penny and she was clean and free of any type of parasite.

Still looking for a livestock vet in the area. That may be my best bet. Thanks all. i will keep updating here if i find anything out.

 

[dlhunicorn]

dont think ill of your vet ... `many normal residents of birds can be - turn pathogenic (think salmonella, E.Coli etc)
Re the Mirabellis I finally (re)found info for you
http://www.vin.com/WebLink.plx?URL=http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/ivcvm/1998/index.php
(click on article Potential Pathogens of the Upper Respiratory Tract
excerpt :
"....All bacteria (Streptococcus sp., Staphylococcus xylosus, Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae pneumoniae, Klebsiella oxytoca, and Proteus mirabilis) isolated from birds with upper respiratory tract disease are considered to be pathogenic and associated with upper respiratory system infections. 8,9 Two recognised fungal pathogens, Candida albicans and Aspergillus flavus, were recovered from psittacines with sinusitis. ...."
...in my estimation your vet is simply taking precautions and as chickens may (or not) have a problem with this I do not believe your vet is incompetant for being concerned....these miniscule differences as to what may be pathogenic can vary from species to species and as avian specialists do not deal with chickens daily (and your farm vets rarely treat at this level being more inclined to simply cull) a little leeway is indicated IMHO
After all we want to encourage the avian specialists to become more interested in treating our pet poultry !!!! (If you think Avian vets are scarce try finding a poultry specialist (avian vet specializing in poultry) to treat your bird!)

 

[Enchanted Sunrise Farms]

Interesting. Penny's culture was taken from her cloaca, and she shows no signs of upper respiratory issues, or any issues at all. But it sounds like what this article is saying is that these bacterias, etc, are normally present in birds, and that they can turn pathogenic when the immune system is compromised.

Also interesting, i have this recurring klebsiella oxytoca infection that crops up in the left side of my mouth on occasion. Not sure why. My doctor did prescribe medication once, but feels it's one of those things i should let my immunce system deal with. It goes away in a day if i eat yogurt and avoid sugars.

i honestly do not think ill of my vet. She is intelligent and helpful. i just feel she is overdoing the precautionary antibiotics. And just like me, i think that keeping Penny healthy and stress free, and supplying yogurt on a daily basis should keep things in check.

Thanks so much for finding this article. It was the first one on proteus mirabilis i've read that i could understand.

 

[dlhunicorn]

well a good relationship with a sympathetic vet is worth its weight in gold...my neighborhood vet (sees a lot of birds but is no avian specialist) is very happy for all the info and "pre" work I do looking up info and such (beofre I got my silkies I always had rescued birds,pigeons etc.) ... a good two way communication and exchange of info is crucial to correct diagnosis.

 

[southernsibe]

dlhunicorn
You are so right about having a sympathetic vet being a valuable relationship. Unfortunately so many times I have gone to a vet, usually for a rescue dog or cat, and they treated me as though I had no idea what I was talking about, despite trying to have a professional conversation. The prevailing attitude is one of, "hush you have no idea what you are talking about". OF course now, I have a vet that I wish I could see. I think she practices better medicine then most MD's I've encountered. Just my 0.02.
Rachel