Muscovies in US - REGULATION CHANGES OPEN FOR COMMENTS - 10/1 update

[silkydragon]

i think if you sell scovys just sell the ducklings or eggs and say they are like pekins or mallards cuz if you ship them do they rly look extremly different when they are still all fluff and is the post office rly gonna open the box unwrap the eggs and check them all to see what kind of duck/chicken is inside?

 

[Mac_]

silky,

I have to disagree. This is an unjust law. We need to e-mail our opinions.

Muscovies have long been domesticated. The regulators just did not do their due diligence in passing this law. All they had to do was google "muscovy" or "hatcheries muscovy" or something similar.

I do not want to have to become an outlaw. I would much prefer just laws.

Mac_

 

[Dances with Ducks]

Quote:
Agreed! From all I have read FWS made a mistake by not being aware of the domestic muscovy when they wrote this regulation, but the chief officer there has owned up to it and has every intention of allowing ownership of these ducks. He is requesting we offer suggestions on how to control feral populations while not impeding private ownership (with all it's privileges including ongoing breeding, purchasing, showing, etc.). Several people who have spoken with him have reported that he wants our suggestions, and quickly too!
So now we all need to focus on coming up with workable ideas to offer FSW, and not beat them over the head about how bad this law is since they are already agreeing to work with us.

How should FSW control feral muscovy while leaving domestic muscovy ownership intact?

Some more possibilities:
A hunting season for muscovy
substantial fines for dumping
Sellers must provide a statement explaining penalties for dumping (although that is a bit of an infringement on ownership, but some sort of targeted education seems called for as the souce of the problem was apparently release of domesticated ducks)

more suggestions?

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Agreed! From all I have read FWS made a mistake by not being aware of the domestic muscovy when they wrote this regulation, but the chief officer there has owned up to it and has every intention of allowing ownership of these ducks. He is requesting we offer suggestions on how to control feral populations while not impeding private ownership (with all it's privileges including ongoing breeding, purchasing, showing, etc.). Several people who have spoken with him have reported that he wants our suggestions, and quickly too!
So now we all need to focus on coming up with workable ideas to offer FSW, and not beat them over the head about how bad this law is since they are already agreeing to work with us.

How should FSW control feral muscovy while leaving domestic muscovy ownership intact?

Some more possibilities:
A hunting season for muscovy
substantial fines for dumping
Sellers must provide a statement explaining penalties for dumping (although that is a bit of an infringement on ownership, but some sort of targeted education seems called for as the souce of the problem was apparently release of domesticated ducks)

more suggestions?


I strongly disagree.

US Fish & Wildlife does not and should not have the authority to control domesticated animals, and the above gives them that authority.

It is also not necessarily animal cruelty to release muscovy onto a lake; in some instances it may be, but not universally, any more than is stocking a lake with fish. If a city or HOA or landowner wishes to put muscovy or other domesticated waterfowl on the lakes under their control, they should be legally able to do so. Dumping birds onto land that one does not control should be covered by state or local regulations, NOT federal ones.

The regulations need to state that:
- muscovies are predominantly domesticated waterfowl; however, in the three specified counties in south Texas they are wild, and fall under the protection and regulations of US Fish and Wildlife.

- In all areas where they are considered domestic; control of feral populations is under the authority of state or local regulations.

- And it further needs to have provisions that protect the rights of those who reside in the areas with wild populations to own, breed and sell DOMESTIC muscovies.

 

[Dances with Ducks]

Danaus29 wrote:
Fish and Wildlife has said they would like the revised ruling to be non restrictive to domestic Muscovy owners and asked for suggestions as to how the revision should be worded. This is our chance to help write a law.

Sonoran Silkies that is the part of what Danaus29 wrote that I agree with. Beyond that I am glad he is offering his suggestions, and I appreciate yours too. This is an opportunity for us all to lay our ideas out and discuss them with each other, so we can come up with better suggestions to offer FWS. I realize there will be no one BYC consensus recommendation, but by offering and analizing (sp?) different suggestions we can all think this through a little more and each of us may have our own ideas honed.
BTW Sonoran Silkies those are really good points!​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

My concern is that by specifying control and dumping of domestic muscovies, however well intended, it gives authority to Fish & Wildlife that shouldn't be theirs. My point is that the Fish & Wildlife regulations should be very specific in stating that their authority over muscovies is only in areas where they are wild, and only over wild populations in those areas.

In general, the simpler the regulation is stated, the easier it is to understand. Issues that are not pertinent to protection and control of wild populations need to be specificallly excluded and/or else specifically stated that feral populations fall under local or state control, not federal regulations.

Definitions of wild, feral and domestic might be a good inclusion.

 

[Mac_]

Quote:
Excellent point.

This is an excerpt from my e-mail to Mr. Allen earlier today:

Muscovies have been raised domestically in the United States for many years. If you google "hatcheries Muscovy" you will find many hatcheries selling Muscovies. Raising Muscovies on small homestead style farms is regularly discussed on poultry forums across the country. Search for "Muscovy" on one of the search engines that will search all of the regional craigslists and you will find further evidence of the widespread raising of domestic Muscovies. This said, does this not place domestic Muscovies outside of the jurisdiction of the Wildlife Service?

I also politely asked for a response, which I will post here if received.

Mac_​

 

[Mac_]

I suggested the following definition:

"Domestic Muscovy shall be defined as any Muscovy that was owned prior to March 31, 2010 and it's offspring."

I would think that any other definition would be so grey as to be easily twisted to mean whatever the individual enforcement officer felt it should mean.

Mac_​

 

[TomNY]

Quote:
The fact that feral Muscovies are a state problem was covered. My post is the first thing in the update on page one. I think all the input Dr. Allen needed from us has been given. His form email reply to muscovychef shows he has moved on. I think it is time to give him a chance to rewrite the regulations. Too much correspondence now may just slow the process down. Most "new" points have been covered in the 59 pages. Tom

 

[Mac_]

Quote:
The fact that feral Muscovies are a state problem was covered. My post is the first thing in the update on page one. I think all the input Dr. Allen needed from us has been given. His form email reply to muscovychef shows he has moved on. I think it is time to give him a chance to rewrite the regulations. Too much correspondence now may just slow the process down. Most "new" points have been covered in the 59 pages. Tom

Tom, what page is the response to muscovychef on?

I personally think that numerous additional e-mails would not be a bad thing. If he has moved on to re-writing the rule, then he will just ignore the e-mails (and rightly so). However, the shear number would only reinforce that many people raise domesticated Muscovies and therefore would not be a bad thing.

Mac_