My first Fox attack that ended in a kill

[Shewholovesducks]

My Aunt lost all her Guinea Hen's to a fox (but she didn't have a coop just a fenced in yard) so I know how tough they can be! Hope you're able to get rid of him did you try relocating him last time? (I read the first 16 pages so I dunno what happened after you trapped him) I don't have any birds yet but I know we have foxes, hope they aren't as persist ant as that one. I feel bad for them though because they literately have almost no where to go here we used to live in the country but they've cut down all the forrests in my neighborhood.

 

[Steemroo]

Shellz, heheh, I know all that about Cornish Rock crosses - am just noting their harvest age - how early it is. Whether we like it or not, it's a benchmark. I know many European born people who hate our chickens because they are bland and have no chicken flavor. This is because they're harvested so young. However, letting a non-caponized male bird grow too long creates other problems: toughness and weird flavors.

This is all hard to sort out, and I don't want to make anyone upset. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know.

Some heritage breeds are harvested later, but at 19 weeks? I usually see a figure of 14 weeks talked about. I wonder if for some breeds 19 is too long?

Right, with heritage breeds we have to accept scrawny carcasses that look more like pheasants than the plump, freakish supermarket birds (we're now used to). I don't mean to cause trouble - I'm just wondering if the 18 to 21 week harvest figure is too generalized - and perhaps wrong for some breeds? And yes, past a certain point you must go to stewing (slow cook) to break down tough flesh and mellow out flavors that have become too strong.

19 weeks is essentially five months age, and that's pretty old for a non-caponized male bird. Capons were often harvested at that age (four to five months), back when this was more popular (say 100 years ago) - and we might conclude it was because 5 months was really too old for most breeds if not caponized. Maybe, maybe not. A Capon, without male hormones, doesn't grow connective tissue like a roo - and therefore doesn't get tough - and can be harvested up to 8 months (or more, but it usually doesn't make sense because they stop growing around 8). Flavor also stays better in a capon (they aren't aggressive and may put on weight faster).

Now the Wyandotte was okay at that age, but the Dorking wasn't. Could be the fault of the hatchery, the line of Dorking they have. Could be that the Dorking just developed faster - developed connective tissue. Did you bake or roast it? Was it tough and grainy? Did it have a strong flavor that wasn't desirable?

I'm only asking because I don't know how to process your comments with other stuff I've read on Dorkings. Dorkings supposedly win or do really well in taste tests (where several heritage breeds are all cooked the same way), time after time. Of course, the hatchery may have a bad line of Dorkings. Some birds get bred for show qualities and lose practical ones. Who knows?

Did you say it was an SG Dorking? Is that Silver ... or is SG the hatchery?

 

[Shellz]

Not upset. Hope you aren't either. I guess I just have strong opinions. I do try to keep an open mind though. Anyway, I guess you'll find different answers to the same question of when to harvest heritage birds. We didn't brine any, but they were roasted in the oven. Flavor was good to great with all birds harvested. The roo was a Silver Gray Dorking. He was the first to start crowing at a very early age. Maybe that had something to do with it? I'm going to try different feed for the new panel of birds and suggest brining before roasting. My hubby is the cook, so I wondered why he didn't brine. He always does with the turkeys. ????

I would learn to caponize if only I could find the right tools! Very hard to come by. The big hatcheries down there sell the kits, but reviews say they're worse than useless! Caponizing certainly has its advantages!

 

[Mygirls20]

My Aunt lost all her Guinea Hen's to a fox (but she didn't have a coop just a fenced in yard) so I know how tough they can be! Hope you're able to get rid of him did you try relocating him last time? (I read the first 16 pages so I dunno what happened after you trapped him) I don't have any birds yet but I know we have foxes, hope they aren't as persist ant as that one. I feel bad for them though because they literately have almost no where to go here we used to live in the country but they've cut down all the forrests in my neighborhood.

I cant relocate in my area I will get a fine. I called animal control and a wild life officer they wouldnt come get him and told me to shoot it.

Sorry about your aunt

 

[Mygirls20]

Well caught myself a grey this morning. I didnt even know we had them in CO I have never seen one before. I now believe all the pooping and peeing is cause this little guy and the annoying evil red fox are fighting it out for my land (maybe) I found red fox tracks (they are bigger) this morning I have never seen the small greys before today. poor guy wrong place wrong time. I did call a wild life officer greys are rare in mountains of CO so I cant kill it. He was super scared of us and acted like he never saw a human up close before. He is super beautiful and not the trouble maker hopefully this run in with people will keep him away. I didnt even get the trap door open more then 2 inches before he bolted out. Un-like the red I let go that just sat there looking at us while the door was all the way open. Anyways I am off to start building my new coop have been super busy lately.

 

[Shellz]

Sorry about your aunt's loss too, Maxcine. All red foxes are persistent. They see poultry, nothing short of a bullet will stop them! Seriously!
Thanks for the pics MG! Why do they have to be so cute?! Oh well, the law is the law. Not supposed to have them here either, but it could happen. And if one showed up, I'd have to leave it alone too. I just hope I never see one!

I hear ya, BUSY! Off to wash sap pails & tap the sugar maples. YAY!!!!

 

[Mtn Laurel]

Glad I found this thread. Looked out the window yesterday and there was the largest - but most beautiful - red fox standing at the fence, just looking at the girls. Most foxes around here have had some sort of mange but this guy was stunning. I was admiring him for a bit before it hit me that he was next to the girls and then EEeeekkk! I opened the door and he bolted away.

I've known there were foxes here for years and this one apparently has a routine of coming through our property at about 2:30 in the afternoon on his daily "route". We've only had the chickens for 8 months and this is the third time I've seen him in those 8 months but the first time that he was near the girls.

We have two dogs so there's plenty of dog smells around to deter him but the lure of chickens appears to be stronger. Oddly, the girls weren't concerned about him and that worries me. They kept right on scratching and doing their chicken thing. Guess they'd not had any experiences with a fox before. I'd hate to kill him but it may come to that. Would prefer to trap him but am not sure if I can relocate him legally. In the interim, I'll be sending the dogs out in the early afternoon and will be keeping a close eye on the ladies, that's for sure.

 

[Shellz]

Had same experience last year. Big beauty of a fox just sitting in my front driveway. Well now that I'm all legal, I'm sure he'll be back soon for more chicken dinners! Hoping I get the chance to shoot him & any others that try! Once foxes know they're there, they will try to get them. If coop & pen are Fort Knox, you have nothing to worry about. Dogs won't deter foxes if they know dogs won't always be around. The few days I had my dogs in when I went to town, were the times fox got chickens. I refuse to pen up my birds in warmer months, so I'm facing the reality of my decision. My dogs will be out or I will be out this season for free ranging. Relocating wild animals is usually not recommended for many reasons. For one, its stressful for the animal to have to fight for new territory & two, can spread disease. Much more humane to put a well placed bullet in the animal, IMO. I also got a pair of big eastern coyotes that moved in over the winter in my woods. Just a matter of time before they come looking for chickens to feed their young. Haven't had ample time to take care of that matter yet, darn it!

 

[Shellz]

My hubby just got back from Rochester, New York yesterday. He says the Dick's sporting goods store has TONS of ammo! Great variety too. So I guess the ammo shortage down there only affects certain regions/states?

 

[Steemroo]

No, wasn't upset - just hoping to work out these details. And I also am not too crazy about what I've learned about the mass chicken industry as well. It's why we have layers and may one day do meat birds, but probably not freak birds. It's really weird (further, it can be a really bad deal for poultry farmers who have to become "contract growers" with big chicken meat distributors - who take most of the profit and leave the local grower very little sometimes - easy to go out of business or suffer with such slim margins - seems an anti-trust act violation, but who knows).

If the SG dorking crowed early, right, this may mean he developed early and was too tough by harvest time. Hard to say. This surprises me, because normally dorkings are slow growers, from what I've read (but who knows).

There must be a reason caponizing was common and done even if harvesting at 4-5 months (twice that in some cases). It may be that the word was an essential marketing tool, or it may be that it produced a large and tender bird, perfect for a big family dinner. Or both.

I'd have trouble caponizing because the organs are internal, it's usually done without anasthesia, and requires tools and skills I don't have (right). The so-called ethics of it - the bird gets a sharp pain (which goes away) that equates to an extra two to six extra months of life - how people can be so certain it's unethical, I don't know. I understand their case - they may be right - but they may only be anthropomorphising ("you killed Bambi's mother - aaaagggghhh"). I don't pretend to know answers.

I wonder if not brining was the problem. I usually marinade chickens before I bake them, and there is salt in it (and a lot of other flavoring agents). Brining can remove off flavors in game (so does a milk soak), so maybe that was it. I don't know if brining helps with making meat tender. When I smoke chicken, I don't brine or marinade, and it's pretty good.