My gut says botulism, but could use some help

[Nksg75]

good evening.
Today I unfortunately went to t he coop as always Andrea found my 2 year old hen Mrs. Lee on the ground, unable to pick herself up.
I immediately thought she was dead, so I went to pick her up, and she was very much alive. SHe is unable to move her head upright. It's almost as if she has wry neck, or stargazing.
I will include a video at the end of this post.
My gut tells me botulism, however I have no expierence with this symptom.
I have never had a chick, or an adult hen that had wryneck, or stargazed.
I found her this morning, and immediately started vitamins thinking it was a vitamin deficiency, however I don't think that is the case at all.
Her symptoms came on suddenly, and it just doesn't feel like a vitamin defeciancy.
The whole flock is on layer pellets(MG brand, here in Texas)
I have been using this brand for awhile now.
Here is some info:




1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)
Mrs Lee is a Lavendar Orpington, yes she feels a bit lighter than she should
2) What is the behavior, exactly.
Sh is unable to hold her head upright, it falls down, and twists like a stargazer, that was the first thing at I noticed. She seems to have no control when I try to stand her up, however I truly believe it's because her head keeps falling down and twisting.
3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?
I found her this morning like this on the floor of the coop
4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms? Not yet
5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
No, and I have looked her over,
6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
That's a very good question, I am leaning toward botulism, considerening she and the rest of her flock free range daily
7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
I have to tube feed her, however if I put a mealworms in between her beak, she will swallow it no problem, she just can't make contact with the food on her own.
8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
She hasn't pooped since I separated her and brought her inside
9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
I originally started her on polyvisol, and nutridrench, then gave her a few drops of vitamin B complex thinking it may be a vitamin defeciancy.
I then worried she needed food and water, so I mashed up her pellets, and mixed it with water then tube fed her that.
Then after reading about botulism, I thought I should flush her system out with the salt water, so I did that.
I feel like a add child who can't make up her mind, but I want to give her a shot!
10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
I need to treat her myself
11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
I have a video....

12) Describe the housing/bedding in use- pine shavings in the coop

 

[Wyorp Rock]

SHe is unable to move her head upright. It's almost as if she has wry neck, or stargazing.

My gut tells me botulism, however I have no expierence with this symptom.

I found her this morning, and immediately started vitamins thinking it was a vitamin deficiency

She hasn't pooped since I separated her and brought her inside

Poor Mrs. Lee
I see you mention free ranging, do you think that she may have eaten something dead or rotten.
From what I understand Botulism is a progression of symptoms starting as paralysis starting in the legs, then to the wings, neck, eyelids and then death.
Can she blink or if you put your finger in her eye, will she shut her eye - I know that sounds bad, but see what happens.

You are correct that she is exhibiting symptoms of Wry Neck.
Is Mrs. Lee molting, has she been laying eggs normally, have you added any new chickens to the flock recently - anything that could cause her stress?

The not pooping since she has been separated is very concerning. Hopefully by the time you read this she has pooped.
It sounds like you are doing what you can for her. Keep her hydrated and add the vitamins to see if that makes a difference.

Sadly, this is a symptom, so she may be suffering from a disease like Marek's.
If you happen to lose her, getting testing/necropsy through your state lab will give you a diagnosis https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/

Here's some reading about Marek's http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

 

[Eggcessive]

You have received very good advice from Wyorp Rock. Botulism, from what I have learned, causes flaccid paralysis starting in feet progressing upward along the spinal nerves up toward the head, within hours. Death may occur within a day. Since you have dealt with Mareks in the past, it would be more likely that it is Mareks, but it can be best diagnosed with a professional necropsy through your state vet. Heavy metal, mold, plant, or chemical poisoning could be other possibilities. In the meantime, I would stop the flushes, and continue to tube feed her fluids and a little feed with the vitamins. She may be too disabled to sit in a chicken sling, but you can try it, or prop her on some rolled towels. Has she passed any droppings yet? I hope you can find out what it bothering her, and hope she can recover. Sorry you are dealing with this.

 

[rebrascora]

I'm so sorry to see Mrs Lee is such a state. That must be heart breaking for you. Sadly, the most likely diagnosis is Marek's, especially when you have a history of it in your flock. It may be that this bird has been carrying the disease in it's dormant phase for months or even years. It may be that she has had a minor outbreak before and you have not noticed it. The vaccine will not prevent them from getting it but should prevent the more serious tumours. It can exhibit as something as minimal as being unable to keep one eyelid fully open and sometimes recover within a day or two when the disease goes into remission, only to resurface when the bird's system is low. Moulting or bad weather/shorter days/confinement etc are often triggers in older birds as well as the usual trigger of adolescent males running amok in the flock (not sure if any of those apply other than moult) and secondary outbreaks are usually more severe and prolonged than initial ones if they survive.
The best that I can suggest is to keep her well fed. I would give her a warm wet mash made with chick crumb rather than layer feed because it has higher protein and less calcium and she is unlikely to be laying at this time so she doesn't need the extra calcium. I would also mix some scrambled egg into it and the Nutri Drench. Make her as comfortable as you can and keep your fingers crossed. If this is Marek's she will actively be shedding the virus whilst she is symptomatic, so take precautions not to transfer infected material to your other birds. I have not had one as incapacitated as that recover from an outbreak but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I would guess the main risk is that she will aspirate due to being unable to keep her head and body in the correct position.
I wish you luck with her and will be keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[rebrascora]

Thank you.
Yes, it’s certainly possible that this is mereks, however is it odd that she shows no sign of what we had before? Meaning the typical split legged?
Also I have never had them go done this fast before.
Hmmm...

I have rarely had two Marek's birds show the same symptoms or the same progression. Some have come on sudden and severe and recovered just as quickly but suffered secondary outbreaks weeks, months or years later. Others progressively get worse. Some take months of supportive care to make a limited recovery. I've only had a few with the classic split's posture. I've had some with just a dropped wing and a couple with wry neck and/or wry tail as well as leg paralysis. I've also had some die suddenly from internal tumours with no prior symptoms. In my experience there are no hard and fast rules with Marek's. Of course it may not be in this case, but it is by far the most likely cause.

Don 't feel bad if your finances don't run to veterinary care for your chickens. Mine don't and even if they did, I would be loath to visit one because so few have more knowledge than is available on this site. I prefer to improve my own knowledge by reading and doing research and performing necropsies on birds that don't make it.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

This is a long shot, but is it possible that a horse with an unknown health history could have Equine (something like encephalitis?)

I'm sure your chickens will eat horse poop, that would not be unusual.
Equine encephalitis is spread my mosquitoes. I think if that was the cause of your hen's problem your Mare would be down and in very bad shape since horses are highly affected by the virus. It would be worth doing some reading on the disease though.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

I would still lean toward Marek's as the cause. I'm sorry. If you have vet care, they can do a bit of testing to rule out infection or internal parasites which could be exacerbating her condition.

 

[BigATC]

Following and hoping for the best.

 

[Shadrach]

I meant here she is..

She's lovely. It's heartbreaking.

 

[Nksg75]

I feel guilty just writing this but a visit to my lovely vet Gloria here costs on average 20 Euros and if I hadn't had enough money to cover a particular treatment she has accepted one of the lamps I make.

Don’t feel bad, thank you for replying.
Your right, all I have to offfer is eggs or my kids! Hmm, mabye she will want a child!(JK!)
She may say no to the eggs after seeing this pathetic chicken!!
I am only playing with you.
Seriously though, I will call them now and see if they could possibly work with me.

 

[Eggcessive]

I kind of doubt that the vet would know more about what is causing the wry neck and her being unable to hold herself up. Wry neck is more typical of Mareks, and not botulism. Botulism is more of a flaccid or limp neck, not the twisting we see in wry neck. Wry neck is a neurological symptom, seen in many different conditions, such as head or neck injury, vitamin E or B1 (thiamine) deficiency, and is often seen in Mareks, fowl cholera, Newcastles disease, and others. Newcastles is rarely found in the US, but there was an outbreak in S. California earlier this year, the first in over 25 years. I still think it is more than likely Mareks, but glad you are exploring the other possibilities. I don’t know if you would like to try some vitamin E (400 IU) and some B1 thiamine daily with a tiny bit of egg for selenium to nelp with E uptake.