My Hens Are Dying. Can You Help?

[SandLapper]

The majority of chicken feed available to me have ZERO animal byproduct.. noting that chickens are NOT vegetarian and NEED some animal derived amino acids which are synthetically added. I know you give bugs also.

But do YOU remember that poultry in the US is also NOT given daily antibiotics and in fact it's against the law now!

I love growing meal worm AND red wigglers.. if your bird eat them.. it's proof your pasture isn't loaded. Meal worms are WAY too slow of turn around to be a viable chicken feed source. They also are not really high in nutrients even when so called "gut loaded". They require their own housing, maintenance, feed source.. and lettuce is JUST a water source for them as well.

When I lived in the irrigated desert on a city lot.. my birds loved the red wigglers I kept in a composting bin. At my new property that's quite lush a large portion of the year with diverse bug and plant life.. they turn their nose up like.. meh, where's the good stuff! Move anything sitting on the ground and the worms and bugs abound. Worms and bugs.. protein and fat yes.. a great TREAT.. for DOMESTIC chickens which are far more prolific layers than truly wild free range birds.. If THAT is your goal, then research appropriate breeds and go with something much lighter bodied.


Probably when chickens started popping out close to 300 eggs per year and kept in confinement to feed the masses of people that continue breeding out of control. Folks keep chickens as pets and for entertainment instead of as a NEEDED food source, we keep MORE than we need, because we feel entitled to do so. So basically.. when people stopped hunting gathering or wondering where their next meal was coming from. It true developing country small farmers don't have the options we do.. They also don't keep fat fluffy bottom rounded birds or eat them for dinner every day the way WE do.. They eat meat on occasion and their birds are smaller bodied requiring less forage overall. Today's average breeds would require at least an acre per head.. AND they would need to be taught earlier (maybe by a mother hen) what things to forage for. A chick raised with no mum and indoors in a brooder will be *less* adept at ranging.

As one poster shared their heartbreaking story.. and I noted, I'm sure.. genetics does matter. You gals, had their breed going against them already.. though slightly different than Orp.. they aren't known for their longevity.

If you're talking about meal worms, darkling beetles, or red wigglers.. lettuce is not really anything other than a water source. It's consider low nutrient.


Common misconception! Lettuce are NOT greens.

Maybe mustard greens or spinach.. clover, cilantro, basil, parsley??

Definitely alfalfa is a green. Or at least it's a grass.. please remember that chlorophyll does NOT indicate nutritive value... And MY information on sprouting says there is equal nutrients with less (mold) issues when sprouts are done only until day 3 verses day 7 of fodder with full "greenness"..
http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj16(4)12/9.pdf

The misconception I speak of though is that chickens need some green. Formulated rations are done so to MEET the need of poultry in captivity BY LAW according to the species and age specified on the label.

Some "green" definitely benefits the enrichment value when offered as a hanging head etc as a TREAT. Fodder trays are all the rage.. My birds, pick the seed off and leave the green behind, making anything beyond soaking the seed for a very short sprout a waste of MY time.. my birds have access to pasture all day.. and sprouts grow WAY to slow in MY temperatures. I still do it because I enjoy the experiments and have fun feeding it out. But it is NOT a means of saving money and will NOT likely impact overall health of a bird. My time is not free. The richness in egg yolk color comes from eating a WIDE array of forages and can be impacted by many things including falsely darkened with added marigold into the feed and things like using a feed based with yellow corn instead of white corn or wheat.. which might produce platinum colored yolks.. cool, but freaky!

I would venture a guess to say.. genetics complicated by malnutrition or vice versa and there could be more to the story that hasn't yet been realized... according to all the information I have seen.. Sorry you lost the 2nd girl.

I can tell from all your replies that you are going to do your very best to get things right! You got lots of good feedback on making your own feed and you MAY still be able to pursue that in the future. But taking it back t basics right now, research avian nutrition and what resources you will have available if you try to go that route. Some "small" farmers these days are getting feeds milled to their specs also. I don't have that option at my current location. But with the BYC world at your finger tips I hope you and your flock will continue to grow into everything you dream it can be!

Did you send her to the lab? Do you want to share a photo of your ladies in their happier days so we can celebrate the life they had with you?

Thank you for the wealth of information. You really tied this thread together into a neat bow. The only thing I could even slightly disagree with is that lettuce doesn't contain any nutrition. Though, obviously, not the greatest for hens...

This morning I let 3 healthy looking hens out of the pen and found three perfect eggs in the coop. They had a pile of formulated pellets waiting for them outside. The clerk at the box store claimed they didn't have any vegetarian layer feed available, so that goal still stands.

They were entirely uninterested in the pellets and looked at me like "where's my buffet?"

Then they pecked and pulled at my shoestrings like they are prone to do (in the back of my mind I sometimes morbidly wonder how many chickens it would take to overpower me like Gulliver's Travels )

They will learn to like the pellets!

The only remaining points I would like to address are:

This spring I am going to seek some heirloom varieties of hens and then methodically pursue rearing a flock that our great grandparents would have had or that many around the world have today.

I will stay active in this community and provide insight as I gain experience with a more traditional approach to husbandry. I feel this may be an area of interest for this community and not so heavily promoted gauging by this post.

Meanwhile, I will raise my ISA Browns with care and with an understanding they were "created" with a reliance on formulated food in mind.
I actually feel sorry the breed, and will never support their purchase again. Though they are beautiful and docile!

Thank you all once again for literally answering my cry for help with compassion and knowledge.

You all are the best!

And I wish you all the best!

 

[SandLapper]

I'm glad the food has been addressed. I too love the idea of a natural diet but I suspect that's similar to people trying to eat a caveman diet. Too much has changed in our evolution for that to really be effective, same for chickens. Mine free range all day every day, but they still devour pelleted feed. I appreciate the peace of mind knowing that someone smarter than me put the pellet composition together. I'm sure it is possible to create something similar that is homemade with protein, vitamins etc if you model it off a complete feed, if the unprocessed aspect is important to you, now that you have a better idea of their needs. But dont feel bad. The guy at my feed store thinks that you can feed roosters only scratch, so you are not alone in this mistake. ETA it's probably been mentioned, but malnutrition will make them more susceptible to other problems, so while they didnt waste away in a day, maybe they just didnt have the ability to fight off whatever was going on. Yeah, I thought I could feed them a lot of what I eat... Like you say, it is easier to provide pellets than to whip up a "chicken dinner" everyday Edit: Don't know why my post formatted so...

 

[SandLapper]

Hello, I can see you want the best for your hens and are trying to give them the healthiest diet possible - this helps remind me to do my research and be really conscious of what I’m feeding my birds.
I really like what eggsighted4life said.
I recently watched a documentary on PBS, I think it was “My Life as a Turkey”. It was about a biologist (I think) who hatched wild turkeys and raised them to adult hood. Your post reminded me of it because in the beginning he specifically stated his techniques, feeding, etc, was based on the fact the turkeys were wild - not domesticated. This helped me think about my chickens in a different light, as animals we’ve changed to suit our purposes- domesticated animals. I think, with that changing, comes special needs. This is a learning experience for most of us, hopefully not just me. I wish you well with your research, and with creating your own feed if you‘d still like to take that path.

That is a great documentary!

 

[SandLapper]

There is a very good article on this site about the raising of mealworms. They are very easy to raise. It tells you how to house and feed them and it’s very inexpensive. Much less expensive than buying them at a pet store.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-to-raise-mealworms.48416/

Thank you for all of your insight!

I will check out that link now.

I'm in the process of raising meal worms now, but really need to up my game to keep up with demand.

Thank you for providing some facts about home feed production as well.

I will consider all that information in my pursuit of self sufficiency.

Like I mentioned in another reply, I am going to seek some heirloom varieties this spring.

I'll post pictures!

 

[Sixandahalfacres]

It IS possible to mix your own feed, but the other posters are correct in that it doesn’t make sense for just a handful of chickens. I have about a hundred and mix my own feed and ferment it. I also add in a vitamin/mineral mix and my birds are very healthy. I feed a mix of cracked wheat, split peas, rolled barley, oats, flax, and then ferment it in 5 gallon pails. In the morning I drain it and stir in a vitamin/mineral supplement and kelp powder. Occasionally I throw them a few black oiled sunflower seeds and mealworms. Because I have a large flock I go through the feed fairly fast so it stays fresh. I also provide them with free choice oyster shell AND grit.

I agree that you need to research what chickens to get next. For what you specifically hope to do I might recommend a land race bird or other small body high foragers. Possibly Svart Hona, game birds, or Icelandics? All the best with your current flock, hopefully you can reverse the damage and save the three other hens.

 

[SandLapper]

It IS possible to mix your own feed, but the other posters are correct in that it doesn’t make sense for just a handful of chickens. I have about a hundred and mix my own feed and ferment it. I also add in a vitamin/mineral mix and my birds are very healthy. I feed a mix of cracked wheat, split peas, rolled barley, oats, flax, and then ferment it in 5 gallon pails. In the morning I drain it and stir in a vitamin/mineral supplement and kelp powder. Occasionally I throw them a few black oiled sunflower seeds and mealworms. Because I have a large flock I go through the feed fairly fast so it stays fresh. I also provide them with free choice oyster shell AND grit.

I agree that you need to research what chickens to get next. For what you specifically hope to do I might recommend a land race bird or other small body high foragers. Possibly Svart Hona, game birds, or Icelandics? All the best with your current flock, hopefully you can reverse the damage and save the three other hens.

Thank you for some direction.

I will research those breeds and look into the feasibility of small-scale feed production based on your advice.

Edit: I elaborated a bit in a comment below

 

[SandLapper]

One other quick addition...I did find some morning glories at the edge of their run and wonder if that could have been a factor.

Maybe it is just my sub conscious bringing that point up out of guilt over their deaths, but it is hard to fathom the coincidence of two healthy birds dropping dead from liver failure within 24 hours of each other.

Though, others seem to have also lost hens very close together...so it isn't entirely impossible apparently.

I only bring up that point for anyone in the future reading this and seeking answers. Maybe that could help.

Regardless, I have learned a wealth of information on nutrition and this info will be used immediately as my hens were still undernourished.

Hopefully I can reverse any damage done as far as feed goes and I will also inspect their pen more thoroughly for any toxic foods.

 

[SandLapper]

It IS possible to mix your own feed, but the other posters are correct in that it doesn’t make sense for just a handful of chickens. I have about a hundred and mix my own feed and ferment it. I also add in a vitamin/mineral mix and my birds are very healthy. I feed a mix of cracked wheat, split peas, rolled barley, oats, flax, and then ferment it in 5 gallon pails. In the morning I drain it and stir in a vitamin/mineral supplement and kelp powder. Occasionally I throw them a few black oiled sunflower seeds and mealworms. Because I have a large flock I go through the feed fairly fast so it stays fresh. I also provide them with free choice oyster shell AND grit.

I agree that you need to research what chickens to get next. For what you specifically hope to do I might recommend a land race bird or other small body high foragers. Possibly Svart Hona, game birds, or Icelandics? All the best with your current flock, hopefully you can reverse the damage and save the three other hens.

If allowed in the forum, do you mind sharing your suppliers?

Also, the box stores seem to push mostly ISA Browns in my area.

Any advice on finding some of the breeds you mention?

Thanks in advance!

 

[4yearsofchickens]

If allowed in the forum, do you mind sharing your suppliers?

I think someone made a list of all the brand of feed people on here use... was it @Kiki ?
Also depending on where you live there may be local feed mill that makes chicken feed from locally grown ingredients. That's how I get mine. It would be somewhat the same as what you want to do but they'll already have it mixed and hopefully have all the proper nutrients.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

Thank you for the wealth of information. You really tied this thread together into a neat bow. The only thing I could even slightly disagree with is that lettuce doesn't contain any nutrition. Though, obviously, not the greatest for hens...

This morning I let 3 healthy looking hens out of the pen and found three perfect eggs in the coop. They had a pile of formulated pellets waiting for them outside. The clerk at the box store claimed they didn't have any vegetarian layer feed available, so that goal still stands.

They were entirely uninterested in the pellets and looked at me like "where's my buffet?"

Then they pecked and pulled at my shoestrings like they are prone to do (in the back of my mind I sometimes morbidly wonder how many chickens it would take to overpower me like Gulliver's Travels )

They will learn to like the pellets!

The only remaining points I would like to address are:

This spring I am going to seek some heirloom varieties of hens and then methodically pursue rearing a flock that our great grandparents would have had or that many around the world have today.

I will stay active in this community and provide insight as I gain experience with a more traditional approach to husbandry. I feel this may be an area of interest for this community and not so heavily promoted gauging by this post.

Meanwhile, I will raise my ISA Browns with care and with an understanding they were "created" with a reliance on formulated food in mind.
I actually feel sorry the breed, and will never support their purchase again. Though they are beautiful and docile!

Thank you all once again for literally answering my cry for help with compassion and knowledge.

You all are the best!

And I wish you all the best!

It depends on what kind of lettuce you're talking about.
Iceberg lettuce has practically no nutritional value it's just a filler.

I did not realize previously that you were not providing feed of any kind
Besides scraps.
I still doubt that that's why they died,
But I do think you need to continue to provide feed especially if they are not free-ranging.
And like others have already explained it would be hard for them to free-range enough to get everything they need.