My Hens Are Dying. Can You Help?

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EggSighted4Life said:
Dear chicken friend.. we are our own worst critics and it's GREAT that we feel convicted by our subconsciousness! :smack

Did you send the second bird in for necropsy.. or attempt to do one yourself and look at the liver and rule in or out that possibility? There is NO such thing as coincidence IMO.

Understand that I have many, many known so called toxic or poisonous plants growing throughout my property including morning glory, tansi ragwort, buttercups, bracken fern, mushrooms to the nth degree, the list goes on and on. Keeping chickens, goats, and pigs was extra scary at first. Through research though I found out something can be referred to as toxic or poisonous if it cause mild upset stomach, or headache.. or EVEN if it causes euphoria! Most of the things referred to in this matter will NOT be an issue UNLESS the birds are locked in with nothing else to eat. Some things are of real concern like Oleander IS actually deadly fast. A chemical spill (rat poison) or botulinum could also cause quickened death like this. Despite tomatoes being in the nightshade family my birds will mow the whole plant to the ground. They are NOT the same as Deadly Nightshades. I would NEVER take the risk of knowingly keeping oleander around, though we liked them as a kid.. even though the animals appear to munch on the bugs attracted to and other plant life around.. leaving the "toxic" stuff to flourish another day. Ugh, my neighbors flowers are always spreading over here.. most recently Foxglove. I am VERY happy to report though that they have decided to quit using herbicide along our mutual fence for the sole purpose of being kind to my animals! But NO, I don't think it was morning glory that caused your issue..


I wonder where are you located and did YOU read any of the ingredients labels on the feeds they had to offer.. or review the thread posted earlier that has accumulated all pertinent information on MANY of the feeds available to us.. to see which one might be BEST suited to your liking and kinda know what you're looking for? Always and I do mean ALWAYS.. get a second opinion on ANYTHING told you by a feed store employee.. most of whom often have ZERO actual animal experience and even those with the best of intention still give some seriously HARMFUL advice! SOME feed store owners and managers MAY be a bit more knowledgeable and more invested than a minimum wage employee. And some BYCer's even unintentionally give misinformation or learn something new but cannot change prior posts! :oops:

Tractor supply and Chewy both offer vegetarian formula chicken feeds. The Purina flock raiser I use is vegetarian despite NOT being touted or advertised on the bag. I actually would have to SEARCH for a chicken feed with animal product in it. I use to laugh when I saw "vegetarian" fed hens and thought they never saw the ground, outdoors, or light of day if they never ate a bug.. but now I do comprehend that some animal feeds are being made with with deceased animals that were not slaughtered but died of other causes.. AND despite it being against the law in many states they do NOT enforce the law effectively from state to state or federally and brands still crossover.

Realistically though.. animal byproducts cost more than vegetable byproduct.. Companies are out for their bottom dollar and so are many family budgets, it's just not cheaper. Even at Walmart.. I couldn't find chicken feed WITH animal byproduct of any kind other than oyster shell which is clearly labeled as such.. So, which feed did you pick up? Is it already included on Kiki's list? Is it really not vegetarian? No ugliness meant, just conversation and curiosity! :)

The gals you mentioned are known more for reproductive disorders than anything else (kidney, liver, etc).. But, 2 suffering the same fate so close to each other contraindicates reproduction condition AND a necropsy could rule that in or out as possible cause.

Since you said you'll be trying other breeds, here are a couple of charts for comparison. Just don't believe everything you read as many birds are better on paper than in person, the rarity of many breeds is outdated information, and despite breed tendencies ALL birds and people are individuals..

Chicken Chart

Breeds of Chickens

https://livestockconservancy.org/images/uploads/docs/pickachicken.pdf

If you wan't something that thrives under YOUR conditions then breeding for it is THE way to go. Land race.. is a "term" that is HIGHLY over rated in MY experience and even the so called "land race" breeds HAVE been selectively bred.. I PROMISE nature don't give a bleep about whether or not a Cemani/Svart Hona has a white toe nail or pink inside his mouth. If you WANT high qualities you MUST select for them. Why are so many land race breeds straight comb when that's the absence of a gene? And how are there so many Swedish land race breeds?? Svart Hona and Swedish Flower Hens? Just questions from my overthinking brain, sorry! :smack

Game on the other hand.. holds true to it's purpose more so, as far as can tell, than land race.

Also, please understand that there ARE other "old school", "old timer's", natural, and/or complete free range ONLY type keepers and threads on here you might turn up results using some of those terms! 100% my way and what I'm suggesting are only ONE way and what what works for some in one environment may or may not work for others even in the same environment. There is NO perfect way.. just what works and what doesn't. YOUR mileage may vary, and that's okay! Make the best choice you can with the information you available at the time. If it isn't working or you learn something new, switch it up!

Yes, your birds are gonna be miffed about the change in pay out as they are creatures of habit. They WILL adjust before long, just stay strong chicken mama!

No need to ferment your feed if providing a correct ration. I did only fermented feed for a flock of 82 for 2 years and didn't save a dime, increase health or anything else touted for my already healthy flock. I wasted a lot of time and energy, and I had tons of fun running different experiments. :sick But the end result when using a formulated ration you can get similar benefits just by wetting.. also.. if you're doing FF well, no need to drain but here's a little link.. (this link gives me flack so I'll figure out how to make it functional, sorry!)
file:///home/chronos/u-5cc07996839ed7db41ca2bf9246136425b20a5ce/MyFiles/Downloads/60378-Article%20Text-111356-1-10-20101001%20(2).pdf
Click to expand...
Again, thanks for the info dump! You always give me a lot to chew on.

I live in the sticks. Unfortunately I couldn't go to the feed store personally until today, where I can verify ingredients lists myself and cross reference that with kiki's detailed chart.

The brand my mate picked up for me is Producer's Pride, which does have "animal protein" listed. I had her pick up a bag of whatever the clerk recommended as a default option after inquiring about vegetarian feed.

This was an "emergency action" purchase while I research and until I fully commit to a brand specific for my and my girls' needs.

I did briefly inspect the liver of one bird, but failed to make any observations of note.

At this time I have chosen not to perform a professional necropsy, but to invest the labor and nutrients put into my hen into my orchard.

I didn't mean to rudely suggest this site doesn't have some old school knowledge, but I just hope to contribute some of that experience myself in the future.

I will process all of your information and research this wonderful community for any insight I can glean. There is obviously a depth of data that may keep me busy for quite a while.
But, I can't just rely on keeping my head in the books. Some real world experience is in order!

So, my project this winter will be determining what breed will best suit my needs and my area, where I will be constantly referring to this site and the provided links.

Then this spring I will start my heritage breed flock and, as you recommend, develop some desired traits myself.

One last side track here...can chickens die of covid?

I couldn't find that info online, just references to large cullings.

(But let me go search these threads too...)

Edit: I will post what brand feed I choose should anyone be interested
 
Last edited:
SandLapper said:
Again, thanks for the info dump! You always give me a lot to chew on.

I live in the sticks. Unfortunately I couldn't go to the feed store personally until today, where I can verify ingredients lists myself and cross reference that with kiki's detailed chart.

The brand my mate picked up for me is Producer's Pride, which does have "animal protein" listed. I had her pick up a bag of whatever the clerk recommended as a default option after inquiring about vegetarian feed.

This was an "emergency action" purchase while I research and until I fully commit to a brand specific for my and my girls' needs.

I did briefly inspect the liver of one bird, but failed to make any observations of note.

At this time I have chosen not to perform a professional necropsy, but to invest the labor and nutrients put into my hen into my orchard.

I didn't mean to rudely suggest this site doesn't have some old school knowledge, but I just hope to contribute some of that experience myself in the future.

I will process all of your information and research this wonderful community for any insight I can glean. There is obviously a depth of data that may keep me busy for quite a while.
But, I can't just rely on keeping my head in the books. Some real world experience is in order!

So, my project this winter will be determining what breed will best suit my needs and my area, where I will be constantly referring to this site and the provided links.

Then this spring I will start my heritage breed flock and, as you recommend, develop some desired traits myself.

One last side track here...can chickens die of covid?

I couldn't find that info online, just references to large cullings.

(But let me go search these threads too...)

Edit: I will post what brand feed I choose should anyone be interested
Click to expand...

Just 2 quick little things before I dart off....

Producers pride has been rejected by a lot of peoples birds. I do not think of it as an option when choosing for my birds.

Covid....it is a "new" disease sort of....but research into domesticated animals has shown very few cases of it but yes cases have happened. Most notably to me were the big cats at a zoo.

I do not think anyone has tested pet birds for covid 19.
 
I am sorry for your losses and I hope you don’t have any more losses.

Feeding birds the way you’ve been feeding yours is how they were fed back in the days of our grandmothers. However, the birds back then were not pets, they were livestock and most likely didn’t live past their first birthday, so their diet wasn’t as important as the normal backyard flocks’ diets are today.
 
Mimi13 said:
I am sorry for your losses and I hope you don’t have any more losses.

Feeding birds the way you’ve been feeding yours is how they were fed back in the days of our grandmothers. However, the birds back then were not pets, they were livestock and most likely didn’t live past their first birthday, so their diet wasn’t as important as the normal backyard flocks’ diets are today.
Click to expand...
I suppose when you are culling much of your flock every year that changes the dynamics a bit, you're right
 
I can't really add anything that hasn't been said. If you have ever noticed white on your birds poop, that is how chickens pee. I think diet definitely had an effect on your birds. I raise usually around 200 plus birds. I raise them for exhibition to show. I care about what they eat. They do get an assortment of seeds and grains as treats. In the summer months they get piles of grass clippings to scratch through. I don't free range anymore due to losses from predators in the past, but the birds have nice large safe pens. In the winter months when the grass doesn't grow I give the birds bales of alfalfa. They are on them quickly. Now and then I buy flock blocks for them to pack at. I have rain/shade tables in all of the pens and put the blocks under the tables. For feed, now I feed everyone all flock/flock raiser. When the chicks are around 8 weeks they are switched over from starter/grower crumbles to all flock pellets. Some brands are around 18% protein, others 20%. I use the 20%. Prior, I fed other feed, but the store sold and the new owners won't order the feed I want. I usually buy my feed by the half ton, but this last time I bought a ton. Regardless of how many birds you have you buy your feed accordingly. The deaths may be coincidences. Sometimes that happens. Diet could have been a contributing factor, and none from predators? I also give the birds stuff from the gardens. They get lettuce especially if it has bolted, then it becomes bitter, but the chickens love it. When we harvest cauliflower and broccoli, the birds get the greens. They like most any greens. Whatever you do, good luck...
 
SandLapper said:
One last side track here...can chickens die of covid?
Click to expand...
Chickens can die of a lot of things.. and testing positive for something is not the same as dying from it. And Covid does not cause instant death.. it's a long drawn out process of suffocation from what I've seen.

PLUS there is PROOF that Ivermectin IS effective against the Covid virus WHEN used during the right stage of infection/ infectious spread!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

My brother tested positive for Covid.. more accurately SARS cov 2.. he had NO symptoms.. Yes, some people are dying.. but we need NOT be fear mongered.. rather follow the ACTUAL science instead of what highly censored, "main stream" media is reporting!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/23661573

Producers Pride.. I haven't tried but do consider them a bottom shelf brand over all.. I could be wrong though and many decent brands make crud quality products and vice versa some cheaper brands do offer SOME products in different "higher quality" formulations. As you stated it was an emergency purchase and you've got time top work out your kinks now. Great job!

Since you're working on a heritage breed with hardiness I'll suggest.. Breeding for resistance to Marek's instead of vaccinating chicks and having a flock that just hides the symptoms. The vaccine does NOT stop the disease or prevent birds from getting it or spreading it. There was one gene identified that does show resistance. Sorry for more info dumping! Best Marek's info in one place..

Marek's Virus FAQ

I probably would have fertilized the orchard as well. :oops:

Thank you for sharing your journey with us and best wishes for future fantastic chickens adventures! :wee

P.S. it wasn't taken as rude about old timer ways.. I just wanted share that even though I think my way is appropriate and there were a lot of supporters on this thread basically (not exactly) agreeing to such.. there ARE indeed other ways working for people and I don't need to bully anyone into MY ideal conditions.. I believe far more in truth and letting individual decide.. So I TRY to present fact as much as opinion but also keep an open mind and not be so brainwashed. So my point was just more to support you towards what sounded like YOUR goal by sharing other terms or threads I have seen that might be useful for ya, while possibly NOT repeating MY personal sentiment. :highfive:
 

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