My Rights vs Rights of Others

[seminolewind]

I would think that if someone wants to change zoning, they would have to get quite a few votes to get it done, and prove that it's necessary.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I think that depends on whether one is wishing to change the designated zoning for a parcel of land, obtain a variance for their lot/land or change the zoning code. Each of these can be done, but what is required differs not only between these, but also from one location (state/county/city) to another.

Let's say I have a large parcel of land that is zoned agricultural. I want to subdivide and create homes, or offices, or stores, or industrial, or .... If I own all the land that I want rezoned, then it is not that difficult. If I only own part, and other land owners oppose the change, it becomes more difficult to impossible.

If I want a vaiance, then depending on the particulars, it may be easy or difficult, and it will partially depend on the opinions of nearby property owners as well as to whether it is likely to create a precedence or any unusual circumstances.

Specific individual changes to zoning ordinances change all the time. Getting large scale changes can indeed be difficult and time consuming. A few years ago Tempe scrapped the old zoning code and replaced it in its entirity. I think it took about two years worth of multiple meetings for public input to the proposed changes (along with various renditions to incorporate the input received) before it ever came to the city council for a vote. It did come to them several times during the process for direction.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

I think, as long as a reasonable person would not say you are preventing your neighbor from using his/her property, you have the right to do whatever you please on your property.

The key is trying to define 'reasonable'.

Sitting on your back porch listening to music through your headphones is definitely not interfering with your neighbor.

Blaring cuss-filled hate-music with your speakers cranked up to 11 at 2am is most definitely interfering with your neighbor.

It's trying to draw the line in the gray area in between that is the problem.

I keep chickens myself, but I must admit I'd be up in arms if my neighbor built a coop right next to our property line, upwind of my house, packed it full of roosters and never cleaned it.

 

[Cruezin]

My attitude about this question always has me pegged as impolite or a bad neighbor or whatever, but I have some real trouble with my rights to own chickens for the use of my family (legal chickens, not outlaw) being superceded by someone else's perceived right to not hear a rooster crow or a hen cackle. This is just for discussion; No, I'm not having neighbor troubles, but with all the city folk moving into the county, it may come up one day, especially as my elderly neighbors pass on and new folks move in.

I would imagine many of you live in a place like this. My county doesn't have zoning. Even the sketchy covenants just say I cannot have pigs or have a mobile home on the property and that's about the gist of them. There is no association nor would I live in a neighborhood that had one. I live in a rural agricultural area in the mountains on over five acres with maybe 250 ft between my house and the houses of two neighbors in different directions. Among annoyances I live with that come from my neighbors are dogs left outside barking many nights, cats roaming and tearing open my garbage bags and spraying noxious fumes all over, guns firing after dark, ATV's roaring around on our private roads, jeeps driving in circles for entertainment, loud music on all holidays, etc. My property is perimeter fenced, 2 of the 5 acres anyway, in addition to separate pens for my birds within that perimeter, but I have four roosters that do crow early in the a.m., sometimes extra early if something unusual happens. They are in enclosed coops at night, but in summer, when windows are wide open, the sound will carry more than in winter. To propagate new birds, I must have roosters. Roosters crow. I have a friend whose covenants stated that she could keep and breed chickens for her family's use. This was out in the country, not suburban at all. The neighbor complained about her one rooster crowing, calling animal control out over and over, citing the noise ordinance. She ended up getting rid of her rooster. I would not have. I'd have fought it to the bitter end.


My county ordinance makes no mention of poultry other than to say I may kill an animal that is attacking animals, people or poultry on my property. There is one ordinance about animals making nuisance noise particular to their species(though no mention of poultry) being disallowed--the exact ordinance is below in the quote box. My question is this: if someone were to complain that my roosters crow at night and they want it stopped, but I can legally have all the roosters and chickens I want here (we're not talking hundreds), why would their right supercede mine? Why would the noise they generate be not be counted as obnoxious and the rooster noise would be? When I tell folks that if someone asked me to get rid of my roosters because they don't like the crowing, that I would flat-out refuse because I'm legal and keep them in clean conditions, they say I'm not polite or am unfeeling toward my neighbors. I disagree.

In addition, there is this feeling among many folks that anyone wanting to have a few legal chickens should ask permission of all the close neighbors simply because it involves chickens. I don't know why I should ask permission of neighbors to own chickens when it's within my legal rights to do so. No one has ever asked me for permission to get another dog or cat and I can't see it ever happening. Dogs are left outside to bark all night long (God forbid they bring them in the house or lock them in a shed for the night, sheesh) and cats roam freely, breeding, spraying and ripping up my garbage bags and their excrement is deposited within my property lines, so seems that if I must ask permission "to be polite", then so should they. We both have a right to our animals and I wouldn't dream of telling them not to have them. I sort of feel like this--If the posted legal speed limit on your county road was 35 mph, would you go to each neighbor along that road and ask them for permission to go 35 mph? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Sec. 1-8. Animals disturbing the peace.​

​

It is unlawful for any person to allow any animal in his possession or​

control to persistently or continuously bark, howl, or make noise​

common to their species or otherwise to disturb the peace and quiet of​

a generally accepted residential neighborhood or subdivision. It shall​

likewise be unlawful to keep or maintain such animals in such a​

manner as to produce noxious or offensive odors or to otherwise​

endanger the health and welfare of surrounding inhabitants.​

Maybe you DO have just as many rights as I do. I'm your neighbor.

No, not literally.

But that's in the eyes of the law.

I strongly believe in community and being neighborly (in addition to following the law). That means that you do the right thing, whatever that may be in your own unique situation.

I know this is an old thread but I think it hits the nail on the head as far as the arguments you guys get from your neighbors. Know your rights, but don't trample on others' rights either. Compromise. Don't take the law for granted, and don't take your neighbors for granted, either.

ESPECIALLY if you're "rural" --- by that I really mean "city" or suburb" adjacent, not out in the farmland kinda rural. When plot sizes are <10ac or so it starts to matter. (Yeah I have noise problems, from roosters. But it's different than what you might think.)

 

[The Moonshiner]

 

[Sally PB]

I started reading this thread, and it was my lesson in gratitude for the day. I have WONDERFUL neighbors. I am soooo lucky!

 

[AmeliaBedelia]

Pro tip: give the neighbors free eggs. Offer to feed their cat when they go out of town. Be the "nice guy" so your chickens are the "nice chickens," even if they get a little noisy.

 

[speckledhen]

Wow, I did not even remember this thread. 2010? Well, a lot has happened since that time. I've had neighbor troubles, mostly DOGS. Ga has a STATE leash law, plus a county ordinance that echoes state law. I would refer you to this story I posted later that year rather than rewrite it: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/trapped-a-neighbors-dog-on-my-deck-got-an-earful.385404/

I strongly believe in community and being neighborly (in addition to following the law). That means that you do the right thing, whatever that may be in your own unique situation.

You believe that if you like. To me, being neighborly means minding your own business unless children are being hurt or there is other domestic violence. That is the right thing. I do me. They do them. Life can be noisy. City noise vs country noise. Why is one worse than the other? Vague covenants like the ones for this little place are not enforceable, being wide open for interpretation. I frankly am sure no one who has moved into this alcove in recent years even knows they exist.
My attitude has not changed in 11 years since I started this thread. Now, that same neighbor, or rather, his son who threatened us in that other thread I linked (his father died last year) has recently gotten chickens, apparently, and his chickens are invading my property. They found a hole in the fence, which I just patched (my husband is in bed with severe back pain so lemme tell ya, that was interesting, dragging a roll of old fencing down the mtn to stretch across the break) and they still are coming up onto my property close to the fence. I practice biosecurity so I fenced my land early on, but it's gotten old and between deer hitting it as they jump and limbs falling, some areas could stand to be shored up a bit. The guy in question has more acreage than I do and his new chickens have to cross a dirt road and come partly up the hill, my hill, to get to the fence, which is inset maybe 10-15 ft up from the property line. That could result in roosters fighting, disease coming from his flock (mine is disease free) or any number of issues. However, I will not speak to them about it after the attitude he had back then, even though he did apologize years later. In spite of the extreme expense, I am having someone rebuild my fence along that side and hopefully, expanding it into the adjacent extra pasture lots we own so they can't come around the bottom corner into our pasture. Probably the fox who has been seen on my game camera repeatedly in recent weeks will take care of those birds since I don't think they even have a pen and free range them all the time.
That neighbor sure won't complain about mine crowing, which would be ridiculous since he also has at least one rooster. That family makes plenty of noise aside from the chickens, but I don't complain to them. Everyone around me has chickens and it's nigh to impossible to tell where sound is coming from in the mountains. So, there is no crowing rooster issue here.
BUT...if I was in a less rural area or had snarky neighbors who were fine with their own noise but had a hissy fit over a rooster crowing, a legally owned rooster...you know, the normal kind that crows a few times each day, which is all of them...I go by the law, not someone's feelings. You cannot go by feelings because anyone could get a burr in their saddle and decide to make trouble for you. If they don't like living where chickens are legal, they should go elsewhere. If they begin to cut their lawn too early or too late at night, you think I should run over and tell them to quit? Noise happens.
I have no relationship with the neighbors, nor do I want to do so after the trouble with them over the past 19 years. I won't call the sheriff about their loud music and ATVs roaring around these private roads every blasted holiday and they ought to do me the same courtesy for whatever they hear from up on this hill.

 

[BBop]

Wow, I did not even remember this thread. 2010? Well, a lot has happened since that time. I've had neighbor troubles, mostly DOGS. Ga has a STATE leash law, plus a county ordinance that echoes state law. I would refer you to this story I posted later that year rather than rewrite it: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/trapped-a-neighbors-dog-on-my-deck-got-an-earful.385404/


You believe that if you like. To me, being neighborly means minding your own business unless children are being hurt or there is other domestic violence. That is the right thing. I do me. They do them. Life can be noisy. City noise vs country noise. Why is one worse than the other? Vague covenants like the ones for this little place are not enforceable, being wide open for interpretation. I frankly am sure no one who has moved into this alcove in recent years even knows they exist.
My attitude has not changed in 11 years since I started this thread. Now, that same neighbor, or rather, his son who threatened us in that other thread I linked (his father died last year) has recently gotten chickens, apparently, and his chickens are invading my property. They found a hole in the fence, which I just patched (my husband is in bed with severe back pain so lemme tell ya, that was interesting, dragging a roll of old fencing down the mtn to stretch across the break) and they still are coming up onto my property close to the fence. I practice biosecurity so I fenced my land early on, but it's gotten old and between deer hitting it as they jump and limbs falling, some areas could stand to be shored up a bit. The guy in question has more acreage than I do and his new chickens have to cross a dirt road and come partly up the hill, my hill, to get to the fence, which is inset maybe 10-15 ft up from the property line. That could result in roosters fighting, disease coming from his flock (mine is disease free) or any number of issues. However, I will not speak to them about it after the attitude he had back then, even though he did apologize years later. In spite of the extreme expense, I am having someone rebuild my fence along that side and hopefully, expanding it into the adjacent extra pasture lots we own so they can't come around the bottom corner into our pasture. Probably the fox who has been seen on my game camera repeatedly in recent weeks will take care of those birds since I don't think they even have a pen and free range them all the time.
That neighbor sure won't complain about mine crowing, which would be ridiculous since he also has at least one rooster. That family makes plenty of noise aside from the chickens, but I don't complain to them. Everyone around me has chickens and it's nigh to impossible to tell where sound is coming from in the mountains. So, there is no crowing rooster issue here.
BUT...if I was in a less rural area or had snarky neighbors who were fine with their own noise but had a hissy fit over a rooster crowing, a legally owned rooster...you know, the normal kind that crows a few times each day, which is all of them...I go by the law, not someone's feelings. You cannot go by feelings because anyone could get a burr in their saddle and decide to make trouble for you. If they don't like living where chickens are legal, they should go elsewhere. If they begin to cut their lawn too early or too late at night, you think I should run over and tell them to quit? Noise happens.
I have no relationship with the neighbors, nor do I want to do so after the trouble with them over the past 19 years. I won't call the sheriff about their loud music and ATVs roaring around these private roads every blasted holiday and they ought to do me the same courtesy for whatever they hear from up on this hill.

I agree with everything you have said from start to end.

Someday, people will be sorry that they made food so difficult to grow and raise.

I have worked shift work my entire adult life. I have lived in some very nice HOA neighborhoods. I have been woken up by stray cats(fed by neighbors) mating and fighting outside of my window, dogs barking incessantly, music pounding, cars revving, trains, semis, horns honked every single day to notify someone to come out of their house, sirens, parades, screaming kids, etc.... The list is endless.

I NEVER complained. I lost sleep, I played sound machines, invested in expensive fencing to keep strays from digging up my yard.

I didn't complain because I know nothing will be done. Friends complained and the police said there was nothing they could do until 10 pm. Or it wasn't sustained, unprovoked barking for a certain amount of time.

People can riot in public and disturb others peace, that is their right. But, heaven forbid, a rooster, who provides sustainable food source for all people, crow on and off.

I have found that the same people that would consider me a bad neighbor if I called the police on their loud parties every Saturday, that block me in my own driveway, will be the first ones to complain about me if I grow tomatoes in my front yard, or have a rooster.

I finally got a few acres in the county and was so excited to have a little flock. I wanted to raise a certain chicken and hatch my own chicks. But, apparently, now it seems ten acres would be needed? Just reading the comments on here about roosters has me really second guessing my decision.

I do believe one day, people will be sorry for the limits we place on each other.

 

[speckledhen]

Someday, people will be sorry that they made food so difficult to grow and raise.

You got that right. Can't have a self-sustaining flock without a male to propagate it. And they crow, fact of life.