My serama breeding, and showing project!

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by prizepete, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. prizepete

    prizepete Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Good Luck! I need to get my Incubator working consistently before I set anything, But I should set as soon As it warms Up for good
    Thanks, Everyone has been so nice, I am hoping to Buy another frizzle to get that gene in my stock, But It depends what is at the show. If I could Squeeze another Pen in, I would love to Be able to get a frizzle rooster, But we will have to see
     
  2. nchls school

    nchls school Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I wonder what is the best pairing for my frizzle hen to get frizzle chicks. One of her new chicks is a rooster with normal feathering. Since he would have the frizzle gene, I'm hoping that breeding him back to the mother will produce frizzle chicks.
     
  3. solomine

    solomine Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hmm... From my understanding, you're aiming for heterozygous offspring for frizzles, right? I apologize if you know this already and I'm giving you redundant information... Correct me if I'm wrong, please!

    Let's say the frizzle allele is F, and the smooth allele is f. Frizzle is (edit: incompletely) dominant.
    ff - Smooth (homozygous; doesn't carry Frizzle gene)
    Ff - Frizzle (heterozygous; our goal)
    FF - Curlies (homozygous; very bad feathering)

    So anytime you breed your Frizzle (Ff) with a smooth feathered (ff), you will get:
    50% Ff and 50% ff (so half frizzle, half smooth)

    It's pretty much safe to breed your frizzle to any non-frizzle, because if they are carrying the frizzle gene, they will express it physically, as it's dominant.

    Smooth feathered seramas cannot be carriers for the frizzle gene. Otherwise they would be frizzles.

    Therefore, it is impossible to get a brood of only frizzles (even if you breed two frizzles let's say Ff and Ff), unless you don't mind the curlies. You will still also get a mix of smooth feathers as well. (I think it was 25% curlies, 25% smooths, 50% frizzle)

    UNLESS, you breed curlies to smooths. You will get 100% frizzles.

    Here's @LTygress punnett square for Frizzle (Ff) X Smooth (ff)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  4. nchls school

    nchls school Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I wonder… It would be good to talk with someone that raises frizzle serama. So far, of the eggs that have hatched from my frizzle hen all have been smooth feathered. If frizzle is dominant, then I am having rather bad luck so far. I set two clutches of the frizzle hen's eggs a couple months ago. Not one frizzle chick. Today I read that frizzle is incomplete dominance. Is it a sure fact that frizzle is a dominant trait?
     
  5. solomine

    solomine Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Yes! I thought it might be called incomplete dominance (had it in my edit for a short while but wasn't sure if that was the correct term), because the phenotype changes depending on the number alleles (1 = frizzle, 2 = curly).

    The thing is, even though it's dominant, you have to breed them to recessive parents; that's what is skewing the numbers. If you were able to breed frizzle to frizzle, you'd definitely get more frizzles. It's just that most people don't want curlies, which is why a lot of breeders give you a chance to hatch frizzles, no guarantee, because they're breeding frizzles to smooths.

    So think of it this way, in terms of flowers:
    White: rr Straight: ff
    Pink: Rr Frizzle: Ff
    Red: RR Curly: FF

    Complete dominance would give either red or white flowers (straight or curly), since if there's any R present, it will be red (curly).

    Breeders, to get frizzles, are typically breeding straight (white) to frizzle (pink) to avoid curlies (red). You're gonna get a mix of white and pink flowers (smooths and frizzles).
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  6. solomine

    solomine Chillin' With My Peeps

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    But yea... maybe it's just bad luck :/ or maybe I'm wrong
     
  7. solomine

    solomine Chillin' With My Peeps

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    @Sally Sunshine has a lot of experience hatching frizzles, I believe?
     
  8. Sally Sunshine

    Sally Sunshine Cattywampus Angel <straightens Halo> Premium Member Project Manager

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  9. Sally Sunshine

    Sally Sunshine Cattywampus Angel <straightens Halo> Premium Member Project Manager

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    If I wasnt having issues with fert I would offer eggs to get you youngsters started, but its not worth trying until we figure the roo issue out!
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. nchls school

    nchls school Chillin' With My Peeps

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    If frizzle is incomplete dominance then a smooth feathered bird with a frizzle gene is not likely to happen. With that in mind pairing my young roo with the mother is no more likely to produce frizzle than my other rooster and possibly even have negative effects. Then why isn't my frizzle hen producing any frizzle chicks. Is frizzle weaker genetically than normal? So far my hen has a 50 to 60 percent death rate where the embryos die in the shell. Possibly those embryos are the frizzle chicks and they die as a result of being genetically weak.

    Her chicks will soon be weaned and I have her with my other rooster who I have not used for breeding. It will be interesting to see if that makes a difference. I've another hen brooding. Out of ten eggs nine are viable-one dead in the shell. The other times this hen brooded many of her eggs died in development too. Maybe it is the other rooster I was using before that is the problem. We'll see.

    Another young rooster to cull. Sigh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016

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