My White Leghorn - What to improve?

[mrjoltcola]

Why would you want to mix colors?
If you want to bring in better type find a better white to bring in.
Imo its a lot easier to find good type white leghorns then any colored leghorns.
Also the whites almost always lay better then the other colors. Some just a bit better but some a lot better.
From your earlier posts.... I would scrap the floppy comb rooster. I didnt see anything that he would bring in that would be to the level you got your second generation rooster to.
You did a good job getting to the second rooster from your first one.

I didn't say I _wanted_ to mix colors. I asked "what about it" because I was pondering the prospect of taking a colored bird I already had, or had easier access to, and making a white that was a better body type, for the purpose of showing. I've done it in the past (crossing colored birds with white, producing white), but not being an expert in genetics, I wasn't sure if what I produced was in some way "polluted", and would come back to haunt me down the line.

I agree with you about the fact that whites tend to lay better, so why start with a colored bird anyway, but I currently have, or have access to, colored leghorns that don't have the faults of the bird I began with, or the flop comb 2nd rooster. It may seem easier to you, but the people I called either didn't call me back, or were no longer selling leghorns, and the stuff I saw on eBay didn't hit the mark for me (except in case of bantam)

Thanks again!

 

[mrjoltcola]

PS: Funny thing, I emailed the guy who sold me the 2nd leghorn eggs, and he said the father, and most of the birds he hatches have a good, straight comb, and that the flop comb showed up 2 out of 40 chicks last year. (I assume he meant 40 rooster chicks because I'd hope it would show up more on the hens)

Leave it to me to win the anti-lottery

 

[gojira]

Well keep in mind that breeding towards the standard also means breeding for production. The body traits that the standard calls for are there to promote the production and be healthy vigorous birds. For example standard calls for a full well rounded breast. Deep breast to hold the many internal organs that are there and allow them to function properly.

Breeding to the standard is not breeding for production. Just curious, where did you get that idea? I assume from your name you have Leghorns. What egg production do you have? Which internal organs are held in the breast?

 

[RCleghorn]

By building the body of the bird to allow for excellent health and production. Not saying thats all that goes into it. But it plays a factor. Remember the standard was created at a time when birds were expected to produce. They all served a purpose to the household. I have 9 year old hens still laying 3-5 eggs a week. All the organs are held in the breast cavity. Have you ever looked inside a chicken?? The breast is on the outside of all the organs in the birds body. Seems to me by your previous posts with others that you know everything. Must be an awful smart person. You enjoy telling others they are wrong? You do it alot.

 

[gojira]

By building the body of the bird to allow for excellent health and production. Not saying thats all that goes into it. But it plays a factor. Remember the standard was created at a time when birds were expected to produce. They all served a purpose to the household. I have 9 year old hens still laying 3-5 eggs a week. All the organs are held in the breast cavity. Have you ever looked inside a chicken?? The breast is on the outside of all the organs in the birds body. Seems to me by your previous posts with others that you know everything. Must be an awful smart person. You enjoy telling others they are wrong? You do it alot.

Are there not different body types for different breeds in the standard? Which body type is the healthiest and most productive? Since there are differences in body types, would one be breeding away from production? There are birds that are not selected to the standard that have better egg production. The breast is made up of muscles, primarily the pectoralis major and pectoralis minor. There are no organs in those muscles, only organelles. I have looked inside thousands of chickens. You? First you say many organs are in the breast, now you say the breast is on the outside of the organs. Which is it? I don't enjoy telling anyone they are wrong. I do like educating and preventing misinformation. I tend to only speak up when someone posts something very misleading.

 

[RCleghorn]

Organs are held in the breast cavity is what i meant by that. Of course you still need to breed for production but the standard gives the bird the body to produce. The way you call people out on here is very rude. Iv seen it multiple times. Im a grown adult im not gonna argue with you. But you need to be nicer to people when you think someone is wrong on here. Basically you are a jerk. Im not gonna comment any further. Good day to you

 

[gojira]

Organs are held in the breast cavity is what i meant by that. Of course you still need to breed for production but the standard gives the bird the body to produce. The way you call people out on here is very rude. Iv seen it multiple times. Im a grown adult im not gonna argue with you. But you need to be nicer to people when you think someone is wrong on here. Basically you are a jerk. Im not gonna comment any further. Good day to you

What is a breast cavity? Do you mean a chest cavity? I thought we were supposed to used proper terminology in this forum, not slang. What about the abdomen? Ok, so if I have Cochins need to the standard, I should get over 300 eggs per year per female? My Cochins are bred close to the standard, but are not even close to that production. I can show you many birds that do not meet the standard for their breed, but are very productive. This forum tells people to expect straightforward answers. I don't sugarcoat things. How would you suggest I correct misinformation? Should I ask permission first? Or would you prefer people be misled by antiquated ideas and marketing ploys? I do show poultry, but I am also realistic. I can breed the most amazing show bird, and have horrible production, and I can breed a bird with horrible type that has higher production than you will see at any show. The reason many show strains have horrible production is not because of their type, but rather lack of selection for production. If what you said were true, all of the upper level birds at shows would be laying better than commercial layers, since commercial layers are not selected for type. Remember, the standard has changed over time. Which tail angle in Rhode Island Reds causes increased production?

 

[3riverschick]

This is why I like the Sussex fowl much. It's production virtues Re so closely aligned with the breed hallmarks. Take Trunorth heritage Hatchery in British Columbia Canada for example
Emily is using population genetics to breed utility back into her Light Sussex.
They also win at the shows. Light Sussex are such a great beginners breed
eWh based Silver Columbian. Docile, easy keepers, rich literary history. Wide gene pool, Lots of veteran breeders willing to help even if it is not their breed.
Best,
Karen

 

[The Moonshiner]

I didn't say I _wanted_ to mix colors. I asked "what about it" because I was pondering the prospect.

Really?
Saying you "wanted to" was so different from what you were saying that you needed to correct me.

 

[mrjoltcola]

Really?
Saying you "wanted to" was so different from what you were saying that you needed to correct me.

You sounded condescending to me, so I responded a bit defensively.

>> "Why would you want to mix colors?

That read as a rhetorical question, intended to communicate something to me. Whether it communicated what you intended is anyone's guess. I took it the way it appeared. If you don't like that fact, then avoid using questions like that to answer questions like mine, and just speak plainly and politely. Unless you really did mean what you asked, in which case, my response is "Because in my experience, a white leghorn + any other color = a white leghorn" so I didn't see an issue with it, but I asked because I wasn't sure. The underlying reason being to take a better quality bird and paint it white. Pretty basic to the thread's intent.

All this, with the caveat that I am plainly not an expert in genetics, so asking me "why" like that either means, neither are you, OR it means that you see something that I don't and in that case, I'd welcome you to educate me.

I'm pretty easy to get along with, but I don't care for online condescension. If you didn't mean it like that, my apologies, I'll try not to be so defensive if you will do likewise.