Mycoplasma and management - Advice, experience please!

[gmjarvi]

No, I didn’t cull, they died themselves, so I sent them off for a necropsy to MSU. They called and sent in papers diagnosing that my flock had ILTV, MG and MS. If I ever get symptomatic birds again with respiratory, they will be culled and sent off for another necropsy. Dr. Mick Fulton at MSU is very knowledgeable and will help you.

As for not buying from locals and instead from hatcheries, it’s about 85% certain that you’re not getting sick birds compared to locals who just sell for money where you have a 50% chance of healthy birds. I don’t think hatcheries are allowed to sell chicks from a sick flock. Almost all or most hatcheries keep their flocks indoors and practice strict biosecurity to prevent outside diseases.

I probably have or have not said this, but I loved my birds, every. Single. One. When we had to cull, it broke me and my family’s hearts to do it. My birds had names and all different personalities, they weren’t just animals, but our pets that we loved dearly. I personally will never want to make my birds suffer with a chronic disease that makes them more susceptible to other diseases or issues.

Thank you for sharing your experience! And for the name drop. I may try to contact him before spring and ask him if he thinks it's worth testing now, or waiting until spring.

I meant small, NPIP certified breeders, not local backyard flock keepers (which is how I started my flock). I would hope small NPIP folks are held to the same standards as large hatcheries. I suppose this is another question of flock goals, as many people advise against birds from large hatcheries of the goal is good breeding or show stock. 85% chance isn't too terrible from the big guys, though.

I bet it was heartbreaking. My attachment to my birds is part of the reason I want to make sure I'm understanding this problem as fully as possible. My birds all have names, too, and some of them like to snuggle me and lay in the sun next to me in the warmer months. It would not be an easy thing to cull them. I am so, so sorry that you've had to experience it first hand.

 

[dawg53]

Thank you for sharing your experience! And for the name drop. I may try to contact him before spring and ask him if he thinks it's worth testing now, or waiting until spring.

I meant small, NPIP certified breeders, not local backyard flock keepers (which is how I started my flock). I would hope small NPIP folks are held to the same standards as large hatcheries. I suppose this is another question of flock goals, as many people advise against birds from large hatcheries of the goal is good breeding or show stock. 85% chance isn't too terrible from the big guys, though.

I bet it was heartbreaking. My attachment to my birds is part of the reason I want to make sure I'm understanding this problem as fully as possible. My birds all have names, too, and some of them like to snuggle me and lay in the sun next to me in the warmer months. It would not be an easy thing to cull them. I am so, so sorry that you've had to experience it first hand.

States vary NPIP testing in what they test for. There are states that wont test for MG/MS unless requested for an extra fee. It's best to call the local extension office or state agriculture department and find out what's required.

 

[Jen1989]

Thank you for your perspective, I really appreciate it! There is so much information out there that it becomes hard to determine the best course of action. I would hugely prefer to have tight biosecurity, but was beginning to wonder if it would even be possible to have a flock that is truly MG free (and free of other respiratory diseases, for that matter) under the tightest biosecurity methods. I can control how other people interact with my flock, but I can't control wild birds!

Do you show birds? I would like my son to do 4H, which would involve showing birds at the county fair...and shows just scream infection to me, even though they have signs about biosecurity everywhere.

Currently none of my birds are symptomatic, and nobody died after this last bout of respiratory illness. If I'm right that there is a chronic issue, I'm guessing they will become symptomatic again when the weather shifts in the spring. If anybody dies between now and then I'll get a necropsy done, but I don't think I'll have that problem. I'll be sending swabs or serum to the lab in the spring, I havent decided which. Flock is closed in the meantime.

I've recently been speaking with a vet whose knowledge with poultry has been outstanding, she told me that mg is predominantly spread in poultry, although wild birds can be carriers, she gave me a strong impression that its incredibly unlikely that my chickens would have caught mg from a wild bird, and much more likely that they either already had it when I bought them or caught it from one of my other birds that I introduced them to... I have two birds with confirmed mg, I'm finding your thread a very interesting read!

 

[Polishchickenmom]

I think there are a couple symptoms in your flock that don't match up with mycoplasma. Mainly the swollen eyes and scabby combs. Swollen eyes and lesions on combs could be fowl pox. Fowl pox is a virus spread by mosquitos (not sure of your location/if mosquitos are an issue this time of year for you), but it typically clears up on its own.

Another possibility with the swollen eyes is coryza, which often presents with eyes swollen shut and thick mucus draining from the nares. This is caused by bacteria, is often chronic (birds are carriers for life), but can't be passed through the eggs like mycoplasma. Treatment involves antibiotics. Antibiotics are something I'm not personally willing to give to my flock since we eat their eggs, and I don't think food and antibiotics should mingle. I think some people do an egg withdrawal for antibiotics, and resume eating them once the antibiotics are no longer in the system, but that assumes that 100% of the harmful bacteria have been killed and are not resistant to antibiotics, which may not be the case if the antibiotics were not administered properly. On an organic farm, once an animal receives antibiotics it can no longer be used for organic food products and can only be sold as conventional. And many conventional meat products are eschewing antibiotics these days, too. It's just not something I'm willing to do for a flock that provides me with food.

My decision making process in your case would probably be dependent on diagnosis and exactly how rare the breeds are. I think there is a lot of misinformation about "rare" breeds because large hatcheries want to make a buck and charge more for more desirable birds, and scarcity is an effective marketing tactic. Have you checked your breeds against the livestock conservancy breed list? If they aren't listed under critical or threatened, I probably wouldn't take their rarity into consideration if my flock's health and safety were on the line. Even so, chronic, infectious illness may be grounds for culling even rarer breeds. I'd send in samples if I weren't able to rule out infectious bacterial disease. If I could confidently say it's fowl pox, I probably wouldn't do anything except close the flock until everyone is asymptomatic.

As for my flock, nobody is currently symptomatic, but I am likely going to send in some samples in the spring (too stressful to do it now for both me and the birds; it's cold!) to see if they are carriers for mycoplasma (I'm not worried about coryza, my flock doesn't have the right symptoms for it). Then I'll make a decision based on the results and what my state recommends. If even one bird in my flock tests positive, that means I can pretty much assume they all have it. I think the quickest way to be done with it is to cull the entire flock (if even one tests positive, they likely all have it or will get it at some point), but that's also heartbreaking AND a significant investment loss. If my state says mycoplasma isn't a big deal then I might not do anything about it, even though that may be seen as controversial on this website. If my birds are going to get it anyway (via wild birds, 4H/fairs, etc.) then why make such a fuss about it? Hence my big question up top: how realistic is it to keep a flock mycoplasma free?

I was hoping someone would be able to speak from experience about how realistic it is, but either nobody has an opinion or my thread got buried lol.

Can you update what you did with your flock? I have culled 5 birds out of 25 and I am keeping the birds with no symptoms at the moment but I have the same questions as you

 

[kurby22]

Can you update what you did with your flock? I have culled 5 birds out of 25 and I am keeping the birds with no symptoms at the moment but I have the same questions as you

This is a bit of an old post, but I can tell you what my vet suggested with my birds. I did have a blood sample taken and they were positive for both mycoplasma and infectious bronchitis virus. According to her, mycoplasmas do not live long once they’re treated with antibiotics (it’s a bacteria so meds work) so once they’re treated and everyone is better the risk of mycoplasma again or spreading is pretty low. So you don’t necessarily need to cull chickens with MG but do need to treat them and wait till all are better before any new chickens. The IBV however is a much different beast and if, like the OP wants, to be NPIP in the future…the best bet is to cull the flock, disinfect everything and wait 6 months or more before starting again. Apparently the viruses are much longer lived in the soil and you need to wait a much longer time to remove it from your property. If like me, you are super attached, love your birds and aren’t interacting with other flocks…you can simply close your flock and manage them with the virus (which never leaves them once they get it). The virus does not cause distress as long as the chickens are not distressed, but depending on the variant of the virus, it can cause reproductive issues that ultimately take the chicken anyway. My whole flock of 19 now has it, but only one got super sick…so I am not hopeful she will live long. But the rest are all fine and happy and sneeze on occasion and there’s nothing I can do about it! You just have to manage their stress, as stress will trigger the virus (like the herpes virus that causes cold sores). It sucks and I will never buy an older pullet in the middle of summer again, as the heat stress and stress of leaving for a new home was too much for her and now I live with the consequences. :-( I love them all to pieces though, so it is what it is! Hope that’s helpful!

 

[Hennyfromdblock]

This is a bit of an old post, but I can tell you what my vet suggested with my birds. I did have a blood sample taken and they were positive for both mycoplasma and infectious bronchitis virus. According to her, mycoplasmas do not live long once they’re treated with antibiotics (it’s a bacteria so meds work) so once they’re treated and everyone is better the risk of mycoplasma again or spreading is pretty low. So you don’t necessarily need to cull chickens with MG but do need to treat them and wait till all are better before any new chickens. The IBV however is a much different beast and if, like the OP wants, to be NPIP in the future…the best bet is to cull the flock, disinfect everything and wait 6 months or more before starting again. Apparently the viruses are much longer lived in the soil and you need to wait a much longer time to remove it from your property. If like me, you are super attached, love your birds and aren’t interacting with other flocks…you can simply close your flock and manage them with the virus (which never leaves them once they get it). The virus does not cause distress as long as the chickens are not distressed, but depending on the variant of the virus, it can cause reproductive issues that ultimately take the chicken anyway. My whole flock of 19 now has it, but only one got super sick…so I am not hopeful she will live long. But the rest are all fine and happy and sneeze on occasion and there’s nothing I can do about it! You just have to manage their stress, as stress will trigger the virus (like the herpes virus that causes cold sores). It sucks and I will never buy an older pullet in the middle of summer again, as the heat stress and stress of leaving for a new home was too much for her and now I live with the consequences. :-( I love them all to pieces though, so it is what it is! Hope that’s helpful!

Glad to see your response! I started reading and following this thread last night and finally got to your reply, most of the questions I have are similar to @gmjarvi.

 

[Myrshine]

Within the past 4-6 months, I’ve been learning more about MG and such, so if you have any questions, I can try answering them with what I know

 

[Folly's place]

It's not difficult to have testing run on your birds; here in Michigan, check with the Michigan state University veterinary diagnostic lab for information, and/or call them.
Only by depopulating, cleaning, and waiting for the virus or mycoplasma to be dead on your property can you have a clean flock!
Biosecurity is a very big deal when poultry are involved; use this as a lesson in awfulness, and move on.
We've had chickens here for thirty years, and through luck, at first, having no near neighbors with 'random source' birds, and then paranoid biosecurity, we've avoided those diseases.
Don't inflict this on another flock either!
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

Sick songbirds can bring MG; here it could be house wrens. Over decades, I've seen two obviously sick wrens; they are puffed up and have gooey eyes and nostrils, and will die within a couple of days if you don't get them first.
We pulled out wild bird feeders immediately, and told the neighbors to please do the same thing, for a few weeks. Our wild bird feeders aren't near the chickens, for good reasons.
Again, luck does play a role here...
Mary

 

[Hennyfromdblock]

Within the past 4-6 months, I’ve been learning more about MG and such, so if you have any questions, I can try answering them with what I know

Awesome thank you so much