Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Phill98]

That is a possibility yes...  although her being birchen with incomplete set of helper genes can't be totally ruled out. There is a big area of overlap in how the extendeds and birchens look when these helper genes are present in various combinations.  Hope this makes sense?

That is the best guess yes, until the chicks hatch and grow up.

Breeding back to the dad will produce blacks- many with varying amounts of off color, probably lots of columbians and maybe a few surprises because a black chicken can be carrying lots of pattern genes that are also invisible.

So she might also be a birchen with lack of helper genes, right?

I guess that I won't get what I was hoping for with this cross. Long story short, I have to hatch chicks and see.

Is there any other color that could produce birchen with that roster?

 

[DesertChic]

I have a roo that is teaching pullets where to lay. the sound you describe my roos usually make if there is some danger (the chicken's shut up, lol).

I never considered it was a "danger" message. The girls do grow quiet and attentive, but there's no apparent sign of distress over anything. Hmm....I'm going to have to observe these actions more often to see if I can locate anything that may be alarming them. Interesting...

My last rooster used to do this. But he had something yellow in his mouth and throat. I don't know if every rooster has that but I noticed that when he died few days after that started. He also had trouble eating and stoped crowing.

That's so sad! Fortunately this is definitely not the case with my boys. They act this way from time to time, but there's no sign of physical distress or illness of any sort, and in a short time they're back to their usual behaviors. It almost appears at times as if they're begging for attention from the girls. Still....just to be on the safe side, I'm going to examine those boys the next time I see them behave like this again...just in case there is a physical problem I haven't noticed. Thanks!

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

As old as I am and as long as I've had chickens, I find watching chicks and even adult birds to be more entertaining than anything ever made for tv. I still get excited with every hatch.

I have to agree with this - I can watch them for hours. I'm always disappointed when it gets dark and they go to bed - then I have to find something else to do (usually chores!!!)...

- Ant Farm

 

[Kev]

So she might also be a birchen with lack of helper genes, right?

I guess that I won't get what I was hoping for with this cross. Long story short, I have to hatch chicks and see.

Is there any other color that could produce birchen with that roster?

Exactly. There is still a chance to get birchen, don't give up hope with that black hen. For example, a bird can be both extended black and birchen. Those usually are dark, as extended black is dominant over birchen. If you have chicks that start black and grow up with lots of color on neck, back on roosters and lots of color on the breast and especially wings, it is birchen- keep those if your goal is birchens.

As birchen is the second most dominant pattern in chickens.. the only real way to get them is to buy birchens or "brown reds"- these are birchen , just have the gold gene instead of silver(make sure the secondary wing feathers do not form the triangular duckwing patch- birchen never has this)... or cross to black/mostly black chickens and hope birchen is lurking inside them.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Yeah I have seen that kind of damage before, it is usually on pullets from a cockerel, especially if there are cockerels and roosters- sometimes the pullet gets damaged when one cockerel is either grabbing her or is on top and another cockerel/rooster either objects to that or tries to get on the action. It's not a very nice thing to see, no... but fortunately most roosters improve and the chances of injury goes down fast- the exception is if there are roosters who continually physically intervene any other rooster trying to mate.

Also pullets have thinner skin than hens, very high percentage of this kind of damage is on pullets for this reason.

This makes sense - they do seem to get split skin from a wound easily. It actually reminds me a lot of my greyhounds - they had really thin skin, and a relatively minor thing in the yard could lead to a nasty wound that pulled open and was a struggle to cover and get to heal...

I think your NH are abnormally early and extreme in their first mating attempts. How old are they?

Oh, yeah, seriously abnormal - smaller than most of the pullets at least early on (no weights this week), and really, really early red combs on a few of the smallest boys. They are almost 10 weeks now - crowing and mating attempts began at about 7-8 weeks... NOT normal. The fact that I have an abnormal pullet in this batch makes me think there's something off genetically with this batch (inbreeding or other).

NN cockerels are pretty much the same as the usual dual purpose.. a couple weeks before the pullets are laying.

There's always exceptions but that goes for any breed.

At least that will give me a little more time - this was way earlier than I expected for Bad Boyz behavior...

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

I cringe at saying this, but when your NN cockerels finally decide they're ready to start mating they'll be just as bad as your NHs in the way they handle the girls at first. In my experience they're typically the most "frisky" first thing in the morning and at dusk. Before I butchered most of my NN cockerels it would get so bad that all of the girls would find a way to perch somewhere on my body as I was the "safe zone" and none of the boys would pursue them once they were with me. My husband came outside one day to find pullets covering my legs, shoulders, arms and head.... All seven of my girls! And the boys just stood watch about 3 feet away, waiting for the first pullet to find her way back to the ground so they could pounce.

It takes a while for those randy boys to develop charm and charisma. If possible, I would highly recommend separating boys and girls as soon as the chase begins...or at least cull as many of the ones you know you won't be keeping to cut down on the number of attacks.

That helps - yes, I intend to separate them out, I just needed more time than the crazy NHs afforded me... I think I'll put the pullets in the coop at first and have that be their home, and the boys can continue in the tractor (many fewer = more space for each) while I evaluate for which ones to keep...

- Ant Farm

 

[Phill98]

Exactly.      There is still a chance to get birchen, don't give up hope with that black hen.   For example, a bird can be both extended black and birchen. Those usually are dark, as extended black is dominant over birchen. If you have chicks that start black and grow up with lots of color on neck, back on roosters and lots of color on the breast and especially wings, it is birchen- keep those if your goal is birchens.

As birchen is the second most dominant pattern in chickens.. the only real way to get them is to buy birchens or "brown reds"- these are birchen , just have the gold gene instead of silver(make sure the secondary wing feathers do not form the triangular duckwing patch- birchen never has this)...   or cross to black/mostly black chickens and hope birchen is lurking inside them.

I don't realy understand the second part because I have never seen that triangular duckwing patch. I will have to search it a bit.

Thank you Kev for making this easy for me.

Oh and I remebered something else. Remember my white recessive hen that was attacked? Well she was in quarantine for a month and a half and she was molting and mostly laying so I couldn't see her good when I was at my grandma's. Well she is out now and she has a broken wing. Luckily she was the top hen in pecking order and other flock members seem to remember her very well So they don't mess with her. Wonder if she starts laying next spring since she is quite ol. So mad at that predators cause they always have to get the favorites.

 

[Phill98]

@Fire Ant Farm I didn't know you had greyhounds. I saw only one in my life and I fell in love with them. They look like they came from royal family. Wonder if they get along with chickens.

( Do you have some pics, I would realy like to see them, you can send me in PM so we don't go off topic)

 

[Kev]

I don't realy understand the second part because I have never seen that triangular duckwing patch. I will have to search it a bit.

Thank you Kev for making this easy for me.

Oh and I remebered something else. Remember my white recessive hen that was attacked? Well she was in quarantine for a month and a half and she was molting and mostly laying so I couldn't see her good when I was at my grandma's. Well she is out now and she has a broken wing. Luckily she was the top hen in pecking order and other flock members seem to remember her very well So they don't mess with her. Wonder if she starts laying next spring since she is quite ol. So mad at that predators cause they always have to get the favorites.

Silver duckwing- it's the white patch on the secondaries(big wing feathers):



Red duckwing:



Without that patch is called crow wing, although this term is not well known or used much.





silver version above, gold version below:



It may seem insignificant, picking on a seemingly minor difference. But the reality, they are completely, utterly different genetically and can be very important for a pattern goal for example.

The two roosters below are colored to very unusual degree.. you know they really are birchen, because they are crowwinged.




Glad the white hen recovered! Yeah it often seems that way- always the favorite or the very last one or was saving for something special....

I like tall dogs too. Had a borzoi for a year. Used to be very excited about the Ibizan breed.

 

[Phill98]

Silver duckwing- it's the white patch on the secondaries(big wing feathers): Red duckwing: Without that patch is called crow wing, although this term is not well known or used much. silver version above, gold version below: It may seem insignificant, picking on a seemingly minor difference. But the reality, they are completely, utterly different genetically and can be very important for a pattern goal for example. The two roosters below are colored to very unusual degree.. you know they really are birchen, because they are crowwinged. Glad the white hen recovered! Yeah it often seems that way- always the favorite or the very last one or was saving for something special.... I like tall dogs too. Had a borzoi for a year. Used to be very excited about the Ibizan breed.

I get it. Thanks for photos. I think I would never notice that patch. I didn't vision it looking like that. That colors are way easier to recognize in hens in my opinion. I don't see much difference in duckwing, wheaten, partridge, or some similar roosters. But hens look totally different. Greyhounds are very, very rare here, but the most popular are borzois. I haven't found any hound breed that I like as much as greyhounds, but borzois are number two on my "like" list. Never seen Ibizian, I'm going to google them now.