Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[gootziecat]

Here are the pullets responsible for the dark skinned chicks. The roo was an Orp x Silkie cross.

Lisa has been working on fibromelanotic for a long time and has some wonderful birds and chicks.She has posted several on here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

I bet you ARE thrilled, Gootziecat! One step at a time...

Kev, Tell me more about Id, please.

RIP Jailbird. She was so pretty.

Flower, Sorry about your guy, (I missed reading that he passed).

 

[Knock Kneed Hen]

Sorry that you lost Jailbird. Cute name for a cute chicken. I haven't had NN's long enough to be able to contribute any useful information.

 

[Kev]

Way cool, more pictures from other angles of his comb would be most appreciated... that's one of the comb types I've not worked with.

Kev it makes a bowl shape.

 

[Kev]

I bet you ARE thrilled, Gootziecat! One step at a time...
Kev, Tell me more about Id, please.
RIP Jailbird. She was so pretty.
Flower, Sorry about your guy, (I missed reading that he passed).

Pity two beautiful birds were lost.

Id is Inhibitor of Dermal melanin. It's a specific layer of skin, on leg areas of chickens this layer produces pigments- the default state as all wild junglefowls have dark colored legs. So Id is a mutant gene in domestic chickens and it happens to be a dominant sex linked one too.

Id afaik, only works by blocking pigmentation in this specific layer of skin.. it has no visible effects on feather color or on the pigmentation in other layers of skin. All chickens have either white or yellow skin, Id has no effect on this yellow or white skin because it's in a different layer of the skin. (black skin is really hyper- pigmentation of connective tissue-which is found throughout the body- rather than a "skin color", which is why the other organs and parts of the body becomes dark, not just the skin)

Okay so all chickens have yellow or white skin.. combine that with Id blocking the production of pigments in a specific layer of skin on the legs.. the result is the bird has either yellow or white legs, respectively.. Basically it's their body skin color showing through on the legs.

If a yellow skin bird does not have Id, that layer of skin will be able to make pigment and it will "combine" with the yellow body skin pigmenation to give visually green legs. I struggle to come up with a green legged breed but it is common in hatchery stock turkens, EE and backyard mixes.

If a white skin bird does not have Id, the white skin combined with the pigmented layer in legs will give visually blue/slate legs. Examples are Sebrights.

You can kind of think of it this way- Id prevents blue or green legs(and seriously messes with black skin pigmentation). It's pretty safe guess to assume all yellow or white legged birds have Id. Leghorns(yellow legs), Marans(white legs), RIR, Wyandottes(both yellow legs), it's definitely present in hatchery and backyard stock NN- it's not too hard to find yellow or white legged NN. Very common and widespread gene, it is no wonder the idea "FM(black skin) is sex linked" gets spread around, because the chances of someone crossing with a bird carrying Id is rather high.

Naturally, there's also more to the story.... Id is not very easily detectable on black and birchen chickens. It's because the gene that makes their feathers black also produce black pigments on their legs- in the layer Id has no/weak effect on.. It's due to this reason why it's very hard to make a good, solid black chicken with clear yellow or white legs- which is precisely the reason black legs is allowed on black Naked Neck standard when yellow legs is required on all other accepted colors & the same situation happens in other breeds too.

One way to find out a black(feathered) chicken with black legs has Id or not is by looking at soles, if the soles are distinctly yellow or white(again, the color depends on what body skin the chicken has) then it probably has Id. Some black feathered breeds call for specific color soles- probably means those breeds require Id, even though they may be otherwise solid black chickens like black/blue Orps, Jerseys, etc. So Id is much more common and widespread than it seems at a glance really.

This got a bit long but hope it's clearer than mud.

 

[NewToFarming]

Gootziecat....That little one is gorgeous!
I am so sorry about Jailbird. She was such a pretty girl!
Georgia Boy... I think the black skin NN's are so pretty. I keep wanting more & more!

Thanks Kev! You know you will have me looking at everyone's feet today! LOL

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Thank you SO much taking the time to explain that. Just the first sentence was more that I *knew* --- "Id is Inhibitor of Dermal melanin".
I think my black, blue, and splash Ameraucana are not Id.
Can you think of a single-comb large fowl (not game) that does not have Id? I bet Campines and Lakenvelders don't. They wouldn't work anyway because of 'patterns' (but I do have a Lakenvelder x Ameraucana cross guy (??)).


You might know what caused this. I've got a *thing* going on with some youngsters from my Fm project pen (Fm hens with splash Plymouth Rock roo). Some of the splash youngsters have dark (gray) skin but have white (chalky white) combs. Looks really weird.

Thanks again for all the help!
Lisa

 

[gootziecat]

Lisa, I'd like to see a picture of those splash youngster with the chalky combs. Sounds strange.

Yes, I too am sorry for the losses of birds. I have a fox problem here and have lost a few myself. It doesn't matter how you lose them, each one counts.

 

[Georgia Boy 1970]

Kev,here are pics of the strange comb.What type comb do you think it is? ​

 

[Georgia Boy 1970]

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