Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Kev]

I understand complex genetics having bred ball python morphs for 20 years. NN should be considered a super form of the nn codom trait. Simular to the"killer bee morph" compared to the "bumble bee morph"However I notice that chicken breeders do not seperate the 2 types(NN and Nn,). I have 2 naked hens but I know 1 is a Nn having come from a outcross breeding. Even the purebred hen only has a 50% of being NN and 50% of Nn coming from a Nn x Nn breeding.Being pets I don't care but if I was breeding I would.When purchasing horses, dogs, reptiles, ect genetic backgrounds are always listed. It helps set the cash value of the animal and allows a person to get exactly what they are after.

I'm not up on snake color/pattern naming habits so I can't tell the naming usage are perfect parallels here. Is 'super'= homozygous/NN/pure?

codominant is used in genetics to mean a group of alleles with more than one dominant alleles. So it's technically not correct to describe naked neck gene as codom- as there's only the naked neck gene and not naked neck.

The only chicken codoms example I can think of right now are E, ER, Ewh with recessive e+ and eb at the E locus.

Breeding chickens is held to a very different standard than most species.. part of the reason most likely are the monetary incentive(lack thereof) the way they are bred-only very few people have the room, could afford or have the monetary incentive to do entirely single pair matings with chickens. Snakes otoh are much easier to isolate and house individually, and the price tags on some morphs gives great incentives to do so.

I have never seen a flock completely pure for the naked neck trait. Have puzzled about this for years, a few have responded it was because it was "not good to breed pure with pure" either without further explanation or a few said it made them 'too naked' but I made a project with one line with selection for as naked as possible for a few generations(yes all were pure for NN), this line did not get visibly naked-er. Shrug. Possibly there really is a reason to keep Nn birds around for breeding, just haven't found out exactly why.

 

[Kev]

Kev, I have a question for you. My roo is NN and I believe my one remaining frizzle hen is NN. Their offspring have all been VERY naked. ...to the point of almost being too naked. Do they reach only a certain level of nakedness? My chicks are usually completely naked, no bowtie, few feathers down the breast and underside. Thanks

AFAIK they don't go totally naked. I tried this with a line of regular hatchery stock for a couple generations with selection only for as naked as possible, it didn't really progress much- they did get larger naked areas but it seemed to eventually 'stop'. They all had bowties reduced to single or two feathers on each side of neck-seems the magic formula for no bow tie was not in this line... other than that it sounds similar to what you're seeing- tiny patch of very few feathers on each side about mid-breast, even the legs were half naked- upper thigh was naked with a ring of feathers by the hock joint and nothing to up around the vent. They also hatched with visible naked areas on the back in two parallel rows with a thin line of down down the middle.. but as they grew their long feathers completely covered this area from view. Wings and tails were normal.

Does your frizzle and the naked-er chicks have pea comb? Pea comb reduces the overall number of feathers and also does create extra naked areas that doesn't happen with single combed NN. Perhaps my line with the total bare neck combined with the pea comb from DDD(it's from her line?) made for extra naked areas?

 

[julhale]

This is my boy Vlad - a two year old roo

 

[insanity]

Yes super would be the pure line. Keeping the Nn for breeding could make since, some genes carry a "fatal" aspect.

Thanks

 

[froggiesheins]

I got Bertha 4 days ago and she is yet to lay. Should I be worried!

SO sorry your question got lost! Anytime a hen is moved to a new home it takes them awhile to get settled in and decide to lay again. Not to worry, when she feels comfy in her new house she will be laying again..BTW: Bertha is cute! LOL

 

[GameFowl]

thanks

 

[Flowerbh]

i have a naked neck hen that had chicks ,but some of the chicks were not naked necks when the non naked necks get old enough to have chicks and are not bread to another naked neck. will some of the chicks get the naked necks gene from their grandma

No. They do not carry the NN gene.
They would have to be bred back to a NN.

 

[TheWeaver]

Kev, I lurk this thread a whole lot and I know you're a genetics master. Or at the very least far more clever than I may be

If I cross this splash Araucana X Silkie hen ( who I got at an auction and may also be other things) with my beautiful NN rooster what do you think the resulting chicks would look like?

If these things hatch out I promise to post pics!

 

[sharkman]

Insanity, as soon asI read your post I said I bet they are a snake person.LOL In snake terms the turken would be a co-dom because there is a super form. a turken to turken breeding produces some turkens with less feathers and if bred to a normal will produce 100 % turkens just like in BPs. To everyone else, in snakes if it is a domanant gene it will only produce 50% expressed morph no mater what you breed it to and there is no "super" form. I don't know if the terminology that snake people use to describe the traits is the actual sceintific terminology or if it is a hobbiest term. Also the term co-dom could be a newer term because it is common in snakes but not alot of other places.
Rob

 

[Kev]

Insanity, as soon asI read your post I said I bet they are a snake person.LOL In snake terms the turken would be a co-dom because there is a super form. a turken to turken breeding produces some turkens with less feathers and if bred to a normal will produce 100 % turkens just like in BPs. To everyone else, in snakes if it is a domanant gene it will only produce 50% expressed morph no mater what you breed it to and there is no "super" form. I don't know if the terminology that snake people use to describe the traits is the actual sceintific terminology or if it is a hobbiest term. Also the term co-dom could be a newer term because it is common in snakes but not alot of other places.
Rob

Rob, thanks for that explanation. The way snake people use co-dom definitely is a snake hobbyist term and different from the usual genetic definition. but co-dom is also frequently misunderstood in general. It means a locus with more than one dominant gene(allele)- again like the blood example- people can have blood type A, B, O.. or the perfect example of co-dom: AB, a 'separate' type resulting from two dominant genes on the same locus.

The usage of dominant by snake people doesn't make sense though- can you give some example of 'dominant' in snake hobby? Is it a lethal homozygous- all the 'supers' for it die or can't breed?