Naked Neck/Turken Thread

[Kev]

Here are pics of my 4 boys at the top of my need to decide list (who stays as head and who stays long enough to hatch eggs from)




I LOVE how dark fm this boy is, he is also the slightest build of all the roos. Even though he is smaller I am really thinking about penning him w/ the fm girls and hatching eggs, and quite possibly keeping him as a secondary roo????

If you have an interest in working with the fibro trait... KEEP HIM!

you already have some sense of how difficult fibro is to work with. It becomes too light or practically disappears on way too many roosters as they mature. I've been working with fibro NN for over 20 years and it is still a big struggle to hit on roosters that keep the dark skin, especially past one year of age.

as for his slight build... well that's just always typical chicken math lol

This is Pie, the almost certain new head roo. He is the biggest and you guys said he is mottled, do you still think so? Even though his comb looks single it is not it is split in the back into a dainty "leaf" comb. (dainty b/c it is only split a short ways about 1/4 of the total length of the comb)

yes barred and mottled for sure. Cool bird. Wish his young pied pattern held though...

This is the second fm boy, he is slightly bigger in frame then the first one and has more white showing. Is there any genetic reason you guys can think that I should choose him over the darker fm?

That right there is the reason it's sometimes valuable to know just what color it is... he might look like a typical Birchen to some.. but his duckwing patch says very clearly he is not birchen at all. He;s probably a silver wheaten.

The only thing I can say is he has flashy colors and as you said, has better frame for production oriented breeding. His fibro is typical and probably will turn much lighter after one year of age.

personally, after working with fibro.... the fact the other one is still dark at his age is extremely valuable solely for the fibro trait. This one is "just average". That's been my problem too many times... one bird with better type but lighter skinned.. with the darker skinned being too light, too small too.................. sigh.

This guy is slightly smaller then Pie, but bigger then the two fm boys. Not sure what is going on w/ his color / pattern genetically. He is my first roo w/ a top knot. Can you see any genetic reason I should choose him over either Pie or one of the fm boys? Or should match him w/ some girls to hatch some eggs before he gets culled. Keeping in mind my limited space for boys.

He is a silver duckwing, the pattern on his breast might be due to mahogany gene.

Handle him and others.. to get a true feeling of their body type. Are they broad between shoulders and over the hips... is the breast bone long or short... are their breasts heavy/meaty or just thin strips of meat...

as for the crest, you like the trait right? I would say if you have several girls with crests you consider to be good type wise, then this one having a top knot is not such a big priority if the other boys are much closer to what you like. Crest is semi dominant and floats down very easily. I don't pay attention to crest and even after several generations, it's still there.

you still could do a deliberate pairing of the biggest/heaviest boy with the biggest crested girl and you should get heavier boys with crests. The bad thing is this will make you wait a little longer to see fuller sized crests again.

 

[Kev]

I love the coloring of this girl



I have a couple of girls w/ this patterning, it is prettier in person, not quite a lace / almost a bar?????

It's the same barring as on barreds or cuckoos. I forget what causes the little thin lacing, maybe it;'s a side effect of being birchen...? the boy behind her is the male version.

I have a couple like this, she is barred, right??? If she were matched w/ a mottled w/b boy (Pie) would / could their offspring be tri mottled?????

She is barred. Hard to tell, if Pie is pure for black, then all chicks would come out b/w patterned.

She is somewhat light, so she could be a silver wheaten... if she is and Pie is not pure for black, then could be some of the male chicks come out barred silver wheatens... similar to the second Fm boy but add barring.

beautiful pictures and birds as usual.

 

[Kev]

Nice! Did you breed or where did they come from? Noticed the hen in second picture.. what other NN do you have?

Thanks! I did breed them myself, I started with a sex link rooster and a black game naked neck hen. Not the best choice to start off with but that's all I had. They actually have no turken breeding in them, just kept crossing with different breeds mostly easter eggers. The hen in the back I use to hatch out eggs, she's a game hen that goes broody.[/QUOTE]


Haha that's great!

 

[Kev]

Yes, I was thinking this re: Tank, because the purpose of this flock that I'm establishing will be for meat, so fast growth will be important along with size. Interestingly, the angles of the growth curves are mostly parallel between the boys EXCEPT Banes which really took off at 5 weeks, which makes me wonder what's up with his background, or if he is more particularly suited to thrive outside vs. in the brooder. I wasn't even sure he was a boy at first (I blame the rose comb). He crows every morning now (call and response with Dumbledore the Cream Legbar, who has a lovely musical crow and seems insistent on "showing him how its done". Bane's slowly getting better...)

I really like Tank. He's sort of doing the "gentle giant" thing, and is not picking on the girls (or anyone)...

- Ant Farm

OK I'll say it... knew Bane was a boy from way early on. With rose comb pullets, it tends to stay extremely flat and almost invisible until close to laying. His started thickening and showing bumps way early.

It is hard to tell, on one hand hatcheries supposedly keep their flocks mixed on purpose so he could be part of this normal variation in hatchery stock as for type. On the other hand, he could really be a direct cross or a recent 'mix' and is showing it by growth from among the smallest to currently the biggest. Could be a trait from something else or expression of mixed genetics(such as crossing two non broody breeds can result in very broody daughters).

Reaching butcher size early can be a good thing- don't need to keep the cockerels around for TOO long.

Tank definitely is a keeper so far by his early weight gain plus mellow personality.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

OK I'll say it... knew Bane was a boy from way early on. With rose comb pullets, it tends to stay extremely flat and almost invisible until close to laying. His started thickening and showing bumps way early.

It is hard to tell, on one hand hatcheries supposedly keep their flocks mixed on purpose so he could be part of this normal variation in hatchery stock as for type. On the other hand, he could really be a direct cross or a recent 'mix' and is showing it by growth from among the smallest to currently the biggest. Could be a trait from something else or expression of mixed genetics(such as crossing two non broody breeds can result in very broody daughters).

Reaching butcher size early can be a good thing- don't need to keep the cockerels around for TOO long.

Tank definitely is a keeper so far by his early weight gain plus mellow personality.

This is useful. While I'm not specifically purist in my aims (I like variety), I prefer the straight comb - not only for more early sexing, but also because with the hot climate here, there may be a (maybe minor?) advantage to a single comb to disperse heat.

I will watch, but I'm starting to think that Bane will be a Christmas roast...

BTW, let me just add that that's part of what I love about this thread in general - it's not as much about a "purist" SOP, but more birds with the naked neck genes (regardless of source or appearance). More varied and fun for backyard flocks that way!!!!

- Ant Farm

 

[Kassaundra]

If you have an interest in working with the fibro trait... KEEP HIM!

you already have some sense of how difficult fibro is to work with. It becomes too light or practically disappears on way too many roosters as they mature. I've been working with fibro NN for over 20 years and it is still a big struggle to hit on roosters that keep the dark skin, especially past one year of age.

as for his slight build... well that's just always typical chicken math lol




yes barred and mottled for sure. Cool bird. Wish his young pied pattern held though...



That right there is the reason it's sometimes valuable to know just what color it is... he might look like a typical Birchen to some.. but his duckwing patch says very clearly he is not birchen at all. He;s probably a silver wheaten.

The only thing I can say is he has flashy colors and as you said, has better frame for production oriented breeding. His fibro is typical and probably will turn much lighter after one year of age.

personally, after working with fibro.... the fact the other one is still dark at his age is extremely valuable solely for the fibro trait. This one is "just average". That's been my problem too many times... one bird with better type but lighter skinned.. with the darker skinned being too light, too small too.................. sigh.



He is a silver duckwing, the pattern on his breast might be due to mahogany gene.

Handle him and others.. to get a true feeling of their body type. Are they broad between shoulders and over the hips... is the breast bone long or short... are their breasts heavy/meaty or just thin strips of meat...

as for the crest, you like the trait right? I would say if you have several girls with crests you consider to be good type wise, then this one having a top knot is not such a big priority if the other boys are much closer to what you like. Crest is semi dominant and floats down very easily. I don't pay attention to crest and even after several generations, it's still there.

you still could do a deliberate pairing of the biggest/heaviest boy with the biggest crested girl and you should get heavier boys with crests. The bad thing is this will make you wait a little longer to see fuller sized crests again.

Thanks for the insights. I knew I had trouble getting a nice dark fm boy, but wasn't sure it was that mine were dilute and I don't hatch big numbers, or if it was a genetic thing. I definitely want fm in my flock, I liked fm before it became the "cool in thing" w/ green fire farms and their pricey fm chickens. One or maybe two of my fm girls has some heft to them (relatively speaking, as in compared to the other FM's not like in relation to a cx or anything) Maybe they can add some meat to the bones of the offspring.

 

[Kassaundra]

Oh and I saw and took note of the white patch and knew he wasn't completely "birchen", just didn't realize he wasn't any birchen. lol

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Thanks for the insights. I knew I had trouble getting a nice dark fm boy, but wasn't sure it was that mine were dilute and I don't hatch big numbers, or if it was a genetic thing. I definitely want fm in my flock, I liked fm before it became the "cool in thing" w/ green fire farms and their pricey fm chickens. One or maybe two of my fm girls has some heft to them (relatively speaking, as in compared to the other FM's not like in relation to a cx or anything) Maybe they can add some meat to the bones of the offspring.

Well, best I've got is a pullet (Trinity) that is (so far) totally black feather-wise and *fairly* black on other aspects (beak, legs) though not really dark. All I have to work with. Not interested in paying $199 per chick from Greenfire for this (nothing AT ALL against Greenfire, which does the huge job of importing birds to the US). I'm not interested in breeding pure Ayam, I just would be invested in dark/Fm NNs. (Again, back to the "Silkie" type chicken for meat, but bigger. That was some SERIOUSLY good soup in Singapore.)

Kassundra, I may solicit eggs or chicks from you in the future if you were willing... I don't mind the road trip...

- Ant Farm

 

[Kev]

This is useful. While I'm not specifically purist in my aims (I like variety), I prefer the straight comb - not only for more early sexing, but also because with the hot climate here, there may be a (maybe minor?) advantage to a single comb to disperse heat.

I will watch, but I'm starting to think that Bane will be a Christmas roast...

BTW, let me just add that that's part of what I love about this thread in general - it's not as much about a "purist" SOP, but more birds with the naked neck genes (regardless of source or appearance). More varied and fun for backyard flocks that way!!!!

- Ant Farm

Don't worry about the heat. They will be heat tolerant just by having NN. It makes a big difference.. also borne out by studies on broilers raised in hot climates(higher meat yields etc).

It gets to 110-120F here.. what kills the big heavy birds is not having a naked neck. I fret over those... with the NN ones all they need is shade and fresh water and they are fine.

 

[DesertChic]

Auto sexing naked necks!

[/URL]

Are these NN + Bielefelder crosses?