Necropsy results: Fatty Liver

[Perris]

Fat makes fat.

This is a myth, and nutrition advice has moved on a bit. See now
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/new-research-debunks-trad-views-on-nutrition.1567953/

 

[Dynamissa]

I wouldn't worry about the red maple, chickens are pretty good about not eating toxic plants as long as they have a choice. The pullet you lost was likely just due to bad luck but reducing treats is probably still a good idea. Your other birds will probably be fine. Grieve your loss, dust yourself off, improve what can be improved upon and understand bad luck happens to everyone, some things are bound to happen no matter what you do or don't do. All we do is manage as best we can with what we have and what we know

For the record I am also of the opinion that the extra protein had nothing to do with this, your girl probably had some genetic issues going on unfortunately

I just already have anxiety and I’ve been losing massive sleep over these birds since we got them in April haha. They’re my daughter’s favorite animal … and everything had been going okay until now. Now i feel like everything is going wrong and I don’t know anything and I just feel terrible for these animals and I love them too.

I’m hoping whatever effort I can manage, as quickly as I can manage it, is enough to keep the others from a similar fate… if I could just let them out, it would be less of an issue but I only live on a quarter acre and neighbors on all sides.

I feel like I’m the only one who has had this problem of the others nearby who have birds, yet I have the largest run.

Poops have been more watery lately (normal overnight) so this has me on edge now as well. i haven’t noticed any green or yellow urates, but..

 

[Eggcessive]

Well, unfortunately, it can be common to lose a chicken now and then. My first chickens all made it through their first year. The next year after getting a few more chicks, I lost a more rare breed at 6 months. My one case of fatty liver disease was unusual, because she wasn’t even overweight. Her liver had a large blood clot attached to it. My chickens always have free ranged during daylight hours, so we lost one occasionally to predation. Realistically that is what will happen with chickens. Reproductive diseases will take some eventually, and are more common around 3 years. It is sad to lose them, but I usually did a necropsy on the hens I lost to look for possible reasons. Posting pictures here of organs during necropsies is helpful when others can share opinions on what might have been wrong.

 

[Altairsky]

I also think it was probably genetic. High protein food is always of higher quality than low protein food. I never heard that high protein causes fatty liver disease, it's mostly carbs and low quality fats that cause this disease.
As for the feed, make sure the feed is for pet chickens. Industries don't care to allow your chickens to live long: layer feed is made to boost egg production for birds that are supposed to only live 2 years, and grower feed that is made to make meat chickens grow meaty and ready to be culled as fast as possible. Cheap industrial food is not meant for longevity.

 

[Dynamissa]

I also think it was probably genetic. High protein food is always of higher quality than low protein food. I never heard that high protein causes fatty liver disease, it's mostly carbs and low quality fats that cause this disease.
As for the feed, make sure the feed is for pet chickens. Industries don't care to allow your chickens to live long: layer feed is made to boost egg production for birds that are supposed to only live 2 years, and grower feed that is made to make meat chickens grow meaty and ready to be culled as fast as possible. Cheap industrial food is not meant for longevity.

Do you have any specific brand / type recommendations? I’ve never seen anything in our feed stores specifically for pets.

 

[Altairsky]

I'm from a different country so our brands don't match, but I've seen here on BYC a few good brands that were labeled organic. But if you're feeding a 18/20% protein feed, it should already be of decent quality.
The only feed that they sell around here are so bad that they could kill rats. Last time I had a bag of feed that was 14% protein and I had to trash it because my chickens were getting health issues and stopped laying.

 

[ChicNmom]

After reading this I have some questions:

1. I didn't realize bugs and grass were fatty. How does one know if your hen is eating too many bugs or too much grass and other greens while free ranging?


2. What is considered high energy food?

3. I provide no scratch - whatever that is. I do occasionally take some of their food and put it in a dish with some water. They initially take to this like bees to honey but then walk away after a few bites. Does adding water to the feed change the composition in any way?

First of all I highly doubt too much grass makes chickens fat. I would not worry about grass or greens of any kind. Grass converts to protein. Look at grass fed beef. It is less fatty than commercial feed lot beef. Generally they finish them off with corn to put on weight and fat.

Also most bugs are protein. Grubs are more fatty but just how many grubs are they going to find in a day?

Black soldier fly larvae have a higher protein content than meal worms but a few of either isn't going to make your chickens fat.


High energy foods are carbs. Scratch grain is mostly corn with some wheat or other grains mixed in. Sunflower seeds are fatty due to the oil content. In winter I do give them some scratch grain before bed so they have the calories to generate heat and stay warm.

Wetting the feed does not change the calorie content. They may even eat less because the water in the feed will make them feel full faster.

These are good questions.

I’ve lost any confidence in what I was doing after this. I already had anxiety but it’s through the roof at this point after all this.

Don't lose your confidence over this. While I have been very annoyed with my husband for all the grain he gives the girls he did have a good point after we lost our young girl to fatty liver.

He said all the birds get the same food. And most of our birds live to be at least 6 or 7 and some much longer. So there must have been a weakness in that hen. And I agree with that logic.

When I researched it, liver hemorrhage is a common thing for chickens to die from.

Also, you should be prepared. Chickens do tend to die sooner than you would think. The high egg production breeds frequently get reproductive problems and cancers.

There are a lot of things that can happen even with the very best care. So you can be doing everything right and still have chickens die. It's always sad but that's just how it goes.

 

[FrostRanger]

As for the feed, make sure the feed is for pet chickens. Industries don't care to allow your chickens to live long: layer feed is made to boost egg production for birds that are supposed to only live 2 years

That's not true at all. Layer feed simply has extra calcium to support egg laying birds, it doesn't make them lay more. Industrial feed simply has the bare minimum nutrition needed to keep a bird laying for as little as possible. In general what one is able to buy at the feed store is at least a bit better quality

Do you have any specific brand / type recommendations? I’ve never seen anything in our feed stores specifically for pets.

You're not going to find anything labeled for pets as pet chickens have the same nutritional needs as any other chicken, rather smaller farmers, backyard farmers and people who keep them strictly as pets can just afford to provide better quality feed. I wouldn't worry about whether it's intended for industrial chickens or backyard chickens as you're generally not going find the stuff they mill for industrial birds in your local feed store. I would stick with around 20% and tend to favour an all flock just because it's simpler, any bird not laying for any reason shouldn't be on layer due to the excess calcium. This includes, chicks, roosters, non-laying pullets, hens too old to lay and hens on break for various reasons. If you have all hens you can certainly feed layer feed if you want but you'll have switch to all flock occasionally when they're on break. Brand doesn't matter to me as long as the nutrition is there, I personally feed kalmbach flock maker pellets with oyster shell on the side for calcium and I was happy with nutrena naturewise 21% layer pellets before I had to switch due to getting chicks but again, use whatever has the appropriate nutrition regardless of brand

 

[Eggcessive]

I have used Purina, Nutrina, and Kalmbach feeds, both layer and all flock feeds with good results. Those were the ones available in my area. When I had chicks or pullets who did not lay, we use chick starter until 20 weeks. Later when most of the chickens no longer laid eggs, we used all flock. The one time I had to buy an off brand feed from Rural King, my chickens refused to eat it, and it was thrown out.

 

[Sammster]

I'm so sorry for you loss. This had be concerned so I did a quick search and I'm finding conflicting information saying that a fatty liver is caused by low protein, high energy diets. Not a high protein diet. Maybe others will have some insight.

Well, that makes sense to me. I can tell you that I personally gain weight when my carb intake is too high.

I'm sorry for your loss. Big hugs for your little girl ♡