Need advice about Green fire

[RAREROO]

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I'm not sure where this information came from, but the web page says these are 1. bantams and 2. $399 for a juvenile pair.

That is not GF Farms that is selling the for $5000, that is someone else selling on featherauction.com and she is in Ga. Paul of Greenfire Farms is in Florida. And I agree with others, if the prices are too much then just dont order from them, I was reading a thread the other day where Paul explained his importation process and told about how much each of the 14 orginal Sussex that he imported costed and I believe he did say it was around $1500 per bird like JasonK said so for 14 birds that would be at least $21,000 for just 14 birds just to get them here, and the having to build up the breeding flocks of them and all that good stuff, so he cant be expected to just give them away. Now he did have some pretty high prices for Seabrights a little while back and they are readily avaiable anywhere, but the prices of the birds he imported are fairly understandable considering the cost he put into them .

 

[Illia]

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This is the second time someone has mentioned someone other than Green Fire as having what Green Fire has on their web site. If anyone has the other web sites then please post them here, because I can't find them with this computer.

I'll tell you right now. - Their Shamos are from the same breeder, same hatch, same lines as mine.

And I don't charge for 6 week old chicks, in fact, any Oriental Gamefowl breeder knows to never do that, the minimum age of shipping these birds is about 5-6 months old. I auction my eggs and let people decide for themselves what they want to pay. As for adult birds, I hatch my own and wait til they grow to the proper age, then look for responsible buyers.

 

[Chickndaddy]

Off-topic by not answering the original post, but I have a question after browsing Greenfire's site:

Did he obtain his Silver-laced Brahmas from the gentleman on here that developed them? I believe his user name was MedicineMan or something like that. I remember when he posted the thread about their development on here and how he was working with Blue-laced Red Brahmas now.

To answer the question, going with a pair seems safer but you might be able to find Greenfire Farm bloodlines somewhere else for a bit less.

Back to Greenfire Farms - I don't exactly think they are a hobby farm anymore. They seem to have at least three locations. One in Florida, one in Montana, and one in North or South Carolina. They say they move their entire Hedemora flock to Florida in the winter and then back up to Montana in the spring. That can't be cheap. They are a very big operation now and doing good things to preserve breeds of "foreign" poultry that are dying out.

What concerns me is not how much they charge for their birds but that they offer pairs. You can't really do anything with a pair of birds. All of their offspring are related. You have to outcross eventually. And how big are their original importations? 15 Swedish Flowerhens originally and the addition of four crested hens from another flock. So two bloodlines and 19 birds. Seems like no matter how many buyers purchase pairs all your stock is going to be related. We aren't really expanding the gene pool or doing the breed that much good. Or maybe I buy a pair of Silver Sussex. Three generations later I need a new rooster for new blood. Everyone else has Silver Sussex from Greenfire Farms and all of our birds descended from the same parent stock of 6 birds? (Just guessing on the number have no idea.)

But maybe I'm worried for nothing. After all some other breeds of livestock, several breeds of cattle come to mind were introduced to America with a small number of heifers and a few bulls. Although importations of new blood later generally took place.

Has anyone ever purchased something else from Greenfire other than chickens? Like their geese, cattle, sheep, or pigs?

 

[1/4irish]

 

[Illia]

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Always wondered that question.


LOVE your comment on the pairs thing though, very true. If you're getting a pair from them, there's about an 80% chance you are breeding brother-sister, then what?

 

[rancher hicks]

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How many? And what did you purchase? When did you purchase them?

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

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Yes, bigmedicine provided the birds for Greenfire. danpowell provided the Buff Laced variety. The birds look somewhat similar to the original breeders birds, but you can tell they didn't give up their best stock.

As for Greenfire, if they brought in German Langshans...I might be willing to spare the extra money..why? Because they are importing directly from lines that are of good quality, they haven't been unscrupulously bred to get more out there immediately in order to make a quick buck on Ebay, bird auctions, etc. You saw what happened with Coronation Sussex. Most do not have the body of anything but a hatchery australorp or hatchery Sussex anymore. All that there is, is color. There is no single type now.

Now, as for the OPs question...I'd go for the juvenile pair. Why? Because the chicks are already sexed, they've made it past the "critical" stage and are, for the most part, hardy. With chicks, you'd still be taking a gamble on sexes.

 

[Illia]

Except that the ages of the "juvenile pairs," to me, are dangerously young to be shipped.

 

[Chickndaddy]

After doing some more research saw where they obtained and imported one pair of Silver Sussex. So all the offspring are related. Unless more were imported at a later time. In my opinion that is rather poor to even offer the birds for sale. Eventually they will bottle-neck genetically. Not to mention the way they prattle about "saving" old, rare, heritage breeds from extinction. Phooey. maybe for a few generations over here until they get run into the ground like my White Javas.

The birds look somewhat similar to the original breeders birds, but you can tell they didn't give up their best stock.

I noticed that too! The birds pictured don't look quite as Brahma-ish as the birds I saw pictured here. Makes you wonder how much the original breeders are selling their birds for. More or less?

I have shipped started birds generally 5-8 weeks old. Tried to ship on the older side of that scale. I generally shipped trios though, not pairs. And only in warmer months. Not year round.

Always wondered that question.

Me too. There is no info on their website and I haven't heard of anyone purchasing anything non-chicken from them.

LOVE your comment on the pairs thing though, very true. If you're getting a pair from them, there's about an 80% chance you are breeding brother-sister, then what?

Well in the case of the Silver Sussex it seems all the offspring are brother and sister.

Seems to me the best way to use most of Greenfire Farms stock is to outcross (when breeds are available) to strengthen your flock genetically but crossing back to the parent stock from Greenfire to maintain body size, color, and other desirable traits you payed all that money for.​

 

[rancher hicks]

I do recall something on their site about inbreeding of the stock. I'll have to go back and check.

I do believe that as far as breeding is allowed, outcrossing to another breed is ok as long as the offspring result in SOP stock of the breed being outcrossed.

I haven't found anyone yet who will show what they ordered from Greenfire though.